I think the 'dual purpose' bikes like Honda Tlr's benefit from geometry tweeks as they were always intended as Trail bikes, not built for competition.

Hello all, very good thread brings back memories .

Didn't mod them back then much, learned to use front & rear brakes to turn smartly,

NEVER loss of forward motion, much emphasis on body position (crawl all over),

most important throttle control, start the Buls in gear ect.

All input great

Larry

A very interesting discussion with plenty of input from experienced riders. Taking a slice of history into the equation and going back into the 60's even the purpose built machines of the

era all had solid welded footrests and fairly flat bars with hardly any lift. Just look at an

unmodified Greeves from those days, a classic being the 24TES. Our standard posture was the

"banana bend" stance. In those days it was not uncommon for footrests to get broken off and we then progressed to small painful spring loaded units mounted higher on the frame and many top

riders having their own handlebars made by Renthal with around a 7" lift. Riding styles of the period were either Sammy Miller and Gordon Farley, knees together, or gripping the tank, and

balance controlled by upper body movement or in contrast to our British Experts from the

Southern Centers the rock experts from Yorkshire were using the "knees wide apart" lavatory

stance allowing the bike to bounce left and right without needing the out of balance dab.

Throughout the 70's we were set on this design with high footrests (around 14" and 7.5" lift

bars). Higher the footrests=higher the bars to maintain our "banana bend". Wheelbase on the

majority of machines was 52.5". Handlebars were set to a neutral position with the bend of the lift being in line with the fork action. Rotate the bars forward and the Cowhorn portion of the bars will cause your wrists to cant inwards and you will increase the pressure of your grip,

take it too far forward and you will have too much weight over the front wheel with all the

problems that will cause. Rotate the bars rearward and you will soften the banana and be

standing too upright and find the bike difficult to manage on long steep climbs.

Moving the footrests back and down is a great idea, 2 x 2, seems about right as it lowers the

center of gravity, but one of the critical measurements seems to be the distance from front

wheel spindle to center of rest which from my experience over 50 years is between 38-39"

One day we will get it right!

TONY

Hi Tony, never heard of the centre of front wheel spindle to centre of footrest dimension before. Had to go straight out and check the bike I like the handling of, exactly 39". Good post.(wheelbase 53")

Edited November 26, 201411 yr by b40rt

Thanks Tony, interesting post.

I'm wishing I'd measured up my Beta REV with relation to footpeg height/position/ handlebar height and my hips....sort of 'golden triangle' she fitted like glove, but was always surprised how little ground clearance she had and the footrests felt like a low riders compared to my SWM!

Hello again, After reading Tonys post with great interest and all above, went to the shop and measured

footrest distance on GG & 199 Bul, surprise both very close to 37 1/2, handlebars; std Hebo plus 1 inch

risers,Bul, Answer Bernie rise & crossbar (welded), maybe 6 in rise?

Sections of my time were as much as possible natural terrain, no clutching necessary except to start and

stop to get your score.

Sadly very seldom the case these days.

PS the stout lads cut bars to 30 inch width.

Have a nice Thanksgiving

Larry

Edited November 26, 201411 yr by lbhbul

Thanks for all of the shared knowledge.It helped me understand the whole moving the pegs thing.