Things I Agree With Mich On....

[alan bechard]

Of course sometimes Mich does not agree with himself, but I don't always either.

Quote from Lane taken from another place out of a thread.

I've found the asking questions thing works well. Also when they get a little older you can ride the same sections that they do, which is a blast. What I do is demo the sections for him and they tend to follow along.

As they become more independent they soon start finding lines that are acutally better for them than what you can pick. It ends up being a lot of fun.

Most importantly, don't push them! If they want to ride hard they will. If they don't just let them have fun.

End of that quote.

Here is another from a different place.

barcota, thank you for your kind comments.

Please also be yourself! It never hurts my feelings if somebody disagrees with me, I believe that the internet is the thinktank of the 21st century where ideas live or die by being discussed in the open.

I've been an avid trials fan since I was 18! I've also always been interested in the sports organization and developement. I'm not sure if there is really a right or wrong way to organize the sport, all that's really required is that we are all having fun.

Lane

End of quote again.

There are others, but those two came out, and Mich wanted to know what I agreed with him on....

[mich lin]

Alan, where do you feel we disagree? Maybe we don't disagree as much as one might think.

Do you believe in standardized classes and rules nationwide? I do!

[alan bechard]

Yes, that is why I support the efforts of the USMTA, I think things there are off to a little of a slow start, as many folks efforts are currently on the upcoming WR, but I think USMTA will help to fill in some of the blanks on standardisation that the NATC is not willing to address.

But, as with all things in the Trials community, it will be a slow and gradual change, it will not be a "here is my great idea to solve the woes of the Trials world" and everyone just jumps on board.

Things I disagree on,,,

Your statements to the effect that we need to increase the pressure on the kids to toughen them up for world level competition come to mind.

The thought that we need to add another class, and if you will method of differentiating classes in the NATC series. If this makes sense, I see three basic ways of differentiating classes in Trials.

Age, or some form based upon age of participants

Ability, What most local clubs use for the majority of their classes

Machine, this can be done by displacement such as with current MX rules, or is sometimes done by age or era of machine such as AHRMA, ITS, etc.

We already have Age and Ability classes in NATC competition, do we really want to throw in the Machine parts as well.

Off the what I disagree with you on, and just random thoughts,

Trials is a pretty darn small sport, the pieces of the pie as a whole, especially in the US are pretty small. Do we really need to divide it up a whole lot more? I know as I was ordering trophies for my events and I was going three places in each class, and doing the classes for my joint events, that at some point I sat down and said this is ludicrous, I am ordering a larger number of trophies then I reasonably expect to have participants for.

A comment that was made somewhere else on this board hit home for me, a youngster (I think) in the UK was talking about how his new bike moved him to the top 5 instead of mid pack, or about 15th or so place. How many local events in the US have 30 riders in a class that you have attended? I for one have been to events where out of 6 classes a 30 rider field was a good turnout.

We also get a very warped view of things reading this board. Some start to think that Europe is like the UK is in terms of Trials. I can speak definitevely for Germany, and I believe many of the other European countries are the same, that Trials has no where near the popularity that it has in the UK, and even in the UK, it is not as popular as some would like to make it out too be. This is evidenced by the discussion's regarding Mr. Lampkin and name recognition in his own country. To hear the tale told on the US side of this board Trials would be a household word if we have folks competing at the top levels of the sport, yet I do not believe that to be the case in the UK, and good gravy, how many top folks have they had and for how long?

I think trials is a great sport that emphasises skill and control, it promotes family togetherness and gives me some great interactions with my kids and folks that I know and respect. It is a great community that I enjoy being a part of and think it teaches my kids great lessons in life, it constantly amazes me how folks will take the time with my kids when they are struggling or stuck and help them out, talk with them, coach them, and get them going. I saw this time and again last Sunday. That is why we ride.

I would love Trials to be a bigger sport, and am doing what I can in a positive manner to promote it and try and increase participation in it. I will not slag off on others, (well except maybe you Lane ) others bikes or others kids in an attempt to show my position. I would like to see Trials grow, but so much of this trash that get's thrown on these boards does nothing to those ends. I respect those folks that go out day after day, week after week and make these things happen, even if I do not particularly agree with the way they are doing it or what they are doing. I know that I have the choice of stepping up to the plate and making it happen myself. That is how those folks got where they are and doing what they are doing, and maybe, after I reach that point, I will see things with view similar to theirs.

Hope to see you at the WR Lane, I will be there, probably stuck way out somewere in the back 40, holding my hand up calling rider and spending the days with my son and amazing at the riders abilities. Then in the evening, between catching up with friends that I have not seen in quite a while, and meeting folks off this board and other interesting charachters that are attracted to trials, I will probably be changing toilet paper in the bathrooms and some of the other great tasks that come with lending a hand on putting an event on of this magnitude.

Hope to see everyone there!

[nsaqam]

I would like to help the sport grow and to that end I've volunteered to help the USMTA in any way can. Catherine has replied and said she would put me to work wherever she thinks I'd be useful. I wish I could go to the WR because I'd love to help out there and meet alot of the people who make this sport go.

Tell me other ways that I can contribute. Mind you, I'm no millionaire and can't start a whole series or open up a trials school. I can and will do anything else within my capability though.

[alan bechard]

Way's to contribute,

Take some WR posters and bring them to the bike shops in your area, ask if they can be put up, most bike shops have somewhere for stuff like that, add your info on the bottom on a label or something that say's, contact me if you would like more information about trials.

Contact your local trials rider's / club. I believe you said there was no active club in your immediate area, so sounds to me like you, your children, and the other riders that are just starting are the "club" Borrowing a line from Martin, be the Spark Plug to get something going in your local area. Put together a fun ride, offer to host a round (yes, this takes some money, depending on how your club operates) of the local series. Offer to help another local Trialmaster host an event and learn all you can so that when it is your turn in the barrel, you can draw on that experience.

Offer to be the Youth Director for your local area. If you have 2 kids riding, That probably gives you a controlling interest in the youth program, Trials people will donate and help any way they can to get more youth riding, it was said here one time that if you left a $20 bill on the sign up table of the local trials you would come back and there would be more money there because folks would think you are trying to raise money, whereas leave that same $20 at the local MX track sign in table.

Offer to take the guys that ride the HS or Enduro etc. stuff that you have ridden with in the past and spend some time out in the woods and let them ride your trials bike and see if it interests them.

See if you can find some support, and line up to do a demo (organise, not ride) for something good. I still have people talk to me about parades and parties and toy runs that we did 5 years ago.

One of the best things that did not work out the way we planned was to do a demo for the Bikers Who Care (local Harley Group) at their Camp Rainbow for severely and terminally ill children. A tip of the hat to Dan Brown and Ray Peters who came up and rode, as well as coordinating with Speed Channel I believe it was and getting them in to film it all. While we Trials riders did not make that episode, The kids of that camp and the BWC and the great work they are doing for those kids did.

Go to a local HS / Enduro club and speak about trials and put on a presentation. Elicit their support if you decide to hold an event, trust me, I have never heard a Trialmaster say he has too many people willing to help..... In return, help them man one of their check points or such, or mark their loop on your funny looking bike with no seat.

Go to your childs,,, uh, school, brownie troop, boy scout club, YMCA or whatever and speak about trials, show them a movie like Rock Hard or one of Geoffs movies, or this open loop CD promoting the WR.

When it is time to do your kids science fair project, tie it into the bikes somehow, my daughters project two years ago was which gas produces the most HP in a motorcycle. She got to run the Dyno and pictures of Trials Bikes were seen by a gazillion folks that went through the school. I do not remember what the Ibsen's did but they did one that involved the bikes as well.

Buy some tapes / CD's of trials and lend them out, with the understanding that all too often they are going to just disappear. It will add interest and exposure to the sport.

Design a business card that shows the local contacts in your area as well as the other major contacts for trials information such as the importers or such. That is actually a task I should be doing and it keeps slideing down the priority list. Make that a reality.

Help us get a simple tri-fold 8.5 X 11 brochure together that we can hand out with USMTA info and something that can be handed out across the US to prospective riders to give them an "in hand" resource to use to find out more info about trials.

I am sure there are more, but that should be a start.

[mich lin]

Great, we agree on standard class names and rules nationwide. More power to the USMTA, I support them also. We also agree they are off to a slow start! Wow, four points of agreement Alan!

Pressure on kids? I think we also agree there as well! In your opening post you pointed out my position that kids should not be pushed. To clarify My position, it is that if kids WANT to strive to the the best, we should offer them that oppertunity. Wow five points of agreement! My position is that we are dropping the ball there and our rider results tend to support my opinion as fact that we fail to support our kids who want to strive to be the best.

I think we also agree that there are too many classes! Is that correct? I don't want to make any assumptions.

Maybe where we disagree is I would like to see the fewer classes at the US youth nationals by using the same youth classes they do in Spain or England. I also beleive that the US nationals should use FIM rules and classes. Then of course age classes to whatever extent the NATC wishes to use. These points need much clarification before we can decide for sure if we agree or disagree.

[alan bechard]

Pressure on kids? I think we also agree there as well!  In your opening post you pointed out my position that kids should not be pushed. To clarify My position, it is that if kids WANT to strive to the the best, we should offer them that oppertunity. Wow five points of agreement! My position is that we are dropping the ball there and our rider results tend to support my opinion as fact that we fail to support our kids who want to strive to be the best.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You have also stated, and I will go find it if you like, that you feel that there needs to be increased pressure on the kids at the YN to help them prepare for the pressures of WR competition.

That is something we DIS agree on.

I guess as to dropping the ball on supporting the kids maybe I am not doing all I should, but can I ask, what have you done in the past 6 months to support the CA youth team?

[nsaqam]

Way's to contribute,

Take some WR posters and bring them to the bike shops in your area, ask if they can be put up, most bike shops have somewhere for stuff like that, add your info on the bottom on a label or something that say's, contact me if you would like more information about trials.

Contact your local trials rider's / club.  I believe you said there was no active club in your immediate area, so sounds to me like you, your children, and the other riders that are just starting are the "club"  Borrowing a line from Martin, be the Spark Plug to get something going in your local area.  Put together a fun ride, offer to host a round (yes, this takes some money, depending on how your club operates) of the local series.  Offer to help another local Trialmaster host an event and learn all you can so that when it is your turn in the barrel, you can draw on that experience.

Offer to be the Youth Director for your local area.  If you have 2 kids riding, That probably gives you a controlling interest in the youth program, Trials people will donate and help any way they can to get more youth riding, it was said here one time that if you left a $20 bill on the sign up table of the local trials you would come back and there would be more money there because folks would think you are trying to raise money, whereas leave that same $20 at the local MX track sign in table.

Offer to take the guys that ride the HS or Enduro etc. stuff that you have ridden with in the past and spend some time out in the woods and let them ride your trials bike and see if it interests them.

See if you can find some support, and line up to do a demo (organise, not ride) for something good.  I still have people talk to me about parades and parties and toy runs that we did 5 years ago.

One of the best things that did not work out the way we planned was to do a demo for the Bikers Who Care (local Harley Group) at their Camp Rainbow for severely and terminally ill children.  A tip of the hat to Dan Brown and Ray Peters who came up and rode, as well as coordinating with Speed Channel I believe it was and getting them in to film it all.  While we Trials riders did not make that episode, The kids of that camp and the BWC and the great work they are doing for those kids did.

Go to a local HS / Enduro club and speak about trials and put on a presentation.  Elicit their support if you decide to hold an event, trust me, I have never heard a Trialmaster say he has too many people willing to help..... In return, help them man one of their check points or such, or mark their loop on your funny looking bike with no seat.

Go to your childs,,, uh, school, brownie troop, boy scout club, YMCA or whatever and speak about trials, show them a movie like Rock Hard or one of Geoffs movies, or this open loop CD promoting the WR.

When it is time to do your kids science fair project, tie it into the bikes somehow, my daughters project two years ago was which gas produces the most HP in a motorcycle.  She got to run the Dyno and pictures of Trials Bikes were seen by a gazillion folks that went through the school.  I do not remember what the Ibsen's did but they did one that involved the bikes as well.

Buy some tapes / CD's of trials and lend them out, with the understanding that all too often they are going to just disappear.  It will add interest and exposure to the sport.

Design a business card that shows the local contacts in your area as well as the other major contacts for trials information such as the importers or such.  That is actually a task I should be doing and it keeps slideing down the priority list.  Make that a reality.

Help us get a simple tri-fold 8.5 X 11 brochure together that we can hand out with USMTA info and something that can be handed out across the US to prospective riders to give them an "in hand" resource to use to find out more info about trials.

I am sure there are more, but that should be a start.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Alan, that is the most helpful and informative posting I've ever read and I would like to thank you wholeheartedly for your suggestions!!!

I will do those things that I can.

I'll post later after I pick my kid up from school.

THANKS!!!

[mich lin]

Alan, we have done nothing for the team for the last 6 months, we stopped riding trials altogether. We just started up again.

Thanks for your question on pressure and the youth nationals. Pressure is subjective and cannot be put on kids unless they want it. If a kid wants to win, he has decided to put that pressure on himself. If the pressure comes from daddy! That might be a mistake, how to deal with pressure must be a decision a rider must make themselves.

Do we agree?

Now if the adults fail to organize the sport in a manner that allows kids to strive for excellece like English rider Wiggy has shown through the British system. Then we are not providing an atmosphere for excellence to florish. Now that's our fault not the kids!

What I have done in the past 6 months is the proposal to the NATC requested by it's chairman which included a revision to the US nationals. His request was a plan to help riders who would like to excel into the world ranks while not in any way detracting from riders wanting fun no pressure nationals. Which I sincerely believe I provided to the NATC.

Edited April 28, 2006 by Mich Lin

[alan bechard]

Do we agree?

Now if the adults fail to organize the sport in a manner that allows kids to strive for excellece like English rider Wiggy has shown through the British system. Then we are not providing an atmosphere for excellence to florish. Now that's our fault not the kids!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, we do not agree on the pressure thing as you are dancing around your past statements, not sure if it is a tap or a soft shoe, but given some time I will dig them up and we will look at what was said.

As to youngsters striving for excellence....

Man, I look around and see tons of that in the US right at this moment. I think there is an amazing crop of riders coming up that will be challenging the world level ranks as they come of age. I can sit here and think of at least half a dozen that are in that contention and coming on strong, looking for the backing and support that an effort such as that will take. And that is being done under the current system.

How many UK youngsters are at the European Championship level?

Would you agree that the UK is the trials capital of the world, or maybe Spain? Not sure how to measure.

Let's compare ourselves to someone like Germany or France, where do we stand there? Are we improving?

I would say 5 years and you will see some American names there in WTC.

Of course then Lane you can say that you let out your three secrets so you made it happen.

[mich lin]

All kids dream until their dreams are dashed! That's what happens to adults, they stop dreaming.

A couple years ago at the youth nationals I asked the question of about 20 kids at the logs "who wants to be world champion?" Every kid raised his hand, including yours Alan!

Now we know that not every kid will have the talent or the drive to be that good. Those are the kids who won't want to or cannot stand the pressure of world championship or even Pro level US trials. That's OK, those are the sportsmen riders of the future and the backbone of the NATC nationals.

What about the gifted few? Do we leave them without the grooming and support that the Spanish, English or Japanese potentual world champions and TDN team get?

Comparing ourselves with Germany, France, Italy and Cech Republic will be easy. Lets see if our USA Trials De Nation team can stay in the A division against these teams this year. Or will they be forced to drop back to the B division again?

If they can stay in the A class and not drop back. Then we know they are improving! Then each year after that we try to pick off one, two or more of the European teams like Germany and France.

If they can't, we need to radically change the program to improve our best riders and TDN team!

Do we agree!

Edited April 29, 2006 by Mich Lin

[copemech]

I really hope Alan and Mich don't get too warm and fuzzy over this stuff! If they ever totally make up and start exchanging spit, I think I'm gonna puke!

Two things, what is wrong about having a 1.25 class in the US nationals for those who want to ride it, and a resulting 1.25 class champion?

What is wrong with limiting kids under a certain age to 250cc if they want to compete in National level trials. If Brent can campain a 250cc with great success, why cannot others? If you have not yet seen him on that bike, you are in for a treat!

It has little to do with the displacement of the bikes! But it Does show the character of the rider! That may be the most important thing and cannot be overlooked! You cannot pressure the kids too much, but if you have ever witnessed the HS class kids practicing together, you begin to see that much of the drive comes from within when the oppertunity is provided. It is a shame that these kids cannot ride together more often!

The Youth Nationals is not a competition as much as it is a GET TOGETHER for many fo these kids, but that is another story!

I need a beer now,

MC

[dman]

Too much talk...

You guys need to actually talk to kids to see if they would want to ride your proposed classes. You should do that before anything really, instead of this adults know best approach.

[mich lin]

dman, the adults run the FIM and make the rules, even if we don't always agree with them. The FIM has banned US riders from the European championship which was always the stepping stone to the world championship. That was a HUGE roadblock to Americans ever getting into the world championship game again.

Now with the introduction of the 125 world championship, US, Canadian, Aussi and other international riders again have a shot at getting noticed for a world championship ride. If an American can have a BIG impact at the 125 world championship, his chances are very good to move into the World Wide One and do well.

It's unAmerican to force people onto 125s! Giving riders interested in contesting the 125 world championship the best oppertunities possible is the only logical stepping stone to another American World Champion. By offerning a 125 national championship in the USA, youngsters have a solid reason to stay back on the little bikes that are a big disadvantage at some trials and sections.

If we fail to provide that reason for them to say on 125s, they will move up to the full size bikes. Which appears to be a major failing point for further rider development against our European and Japanese competition.

Edited April 29, 2006 by Mich Lin

[mich lin]

dman, one more thing! Your right talk is cheap but Consider this, I've not only talked the talk but walked the walk.

As an individual I've scored more world championship points than the entire US pro class combined.

I've lived and ridden trials in Europe!

One of my team's riders scored the first FIM world championship points of any US rider since the mid 1980s, that was in 2000 in Spain.

We have been to 4 TDNs with one of our riders being a member of the team twice.

So we have also walked the walk in the FIM sections in Europe, not just talked! I've been there, seen the competition, had our rider banned from competing at the European championship. So I'm not a novice at world championship trials or what is needed to improve the chances of our up and coming riders.

Respectfully,

Mich Lin