18 replies to this topic

[ishy]

jordi, on Nov 10 2009, 10:00 AM, said:

I,m blowed if I can find what I thought I read! I am sure it was on www.trial-club.net

This has been on the front page of Trials central all day.


The FIM held their Biennial Session at the end of October. From this, the following is relevant to Trials:

Indoor Championship

New competition format for Indoor Trial with 8 permanent riders (instead of 6 at present).

Outdoor Championship

Competitors will not be allowed to inspect the section once the competition has started. The bibs for industry people are eliminated. A bib “Team Manager” will be available for manufacturers, private and national teams.

Strangely, there is no mention in this release regarding the stop/no-stop debate...

2010 Provisional Indoor Calendar

23/01 - Marseille, France
05/02 - Nice, France
07/02 - Barcelona, Spain
14/02 - La Coruna, Spain
13/03 - Madrid, Spain
20/03 - Valparaiso, Chile
27/03 - Palma, Majorca


2010 Provisional Outdoor Calendar

11/04 - Baiona, Spain
17&18/04 - Pacos de Ferreira, Portugal
05&06/06 - Motegi ring, Japan
26&27/06 - Fort William, Scotland
11/07 - St-Michel de Maurienne, France
18/07 - Baldasserona, San Marino
25/07 - Foppolo, Italy
05/09 - Kramolin, Czech Republic

2010 Ladies World Championship

10/07 - S-Michel de Maurienne, France
04/09 - Kramolin, Czech Republic
10/09 - Myslenice, Poland

2010 Trial des Nations

11&12/09 - Myslenice, Poland

Note all dates are PROVISIONAL

[Baz_Huskinson]

jordi, on Nov 12 2009, 07:14 PM, said:

The overall number of entries at a WTC is not really the issue, only the WTC rider numbers themselves. The issue of scoring may be interesting, but isnt it a case of mainly clean or five in a lot of sections at this level. It seems that a 3 is a case of rushing to meet the time limit.

well in the 70's 80's and 90's the wtc was just one route with loads of entrants. i think the 1988 world round at butser limeworks had arond 100 riders in it and a fair few spectators and it was covered on grandstand on bbc. granted it has become a more specialised sport with the evolution of riding techniques and more tchnically advanced motorcycles but either way you look at it more people were having a go back then.

ive been to lots of world round over the years and followed the sport avidly and i could name you loads of times ive seen a top rider just dabing from almost the moment he enters the section because of exactly what you said they rush to meet the time limit. 08 british champs at hook woods brown/wigg/jarvis were all doing that on certain sections. ive seen raga and bou have to do the same on some sections. i am just saying that as the rules are it dosnt nessacarily draw the best out of riders.

jordi i think you are right that certanly in some trials some of the sections are abit 0 or 5 for most of the wtc entry and i think sometimes that is down to a lack of imagination in the section design and also just how good bou and raga fajardo and fuji and cabestany are, in order to test these riders the whole level of wtc is to much for the rest. maybe it would be better to have more sections, i.e 1 lap of 40 or something like they used to, with varying degrees of dificulty of section throughout the trial, that way you could still have 5 real tough ones for the top riders, then 5 abit easier, then aanother 5 abit easier still, etc etc, then your more average competitors currently on the junior route could still have a crack at it.

just a thought

[Woody]

8 riders for the indoor? - as there are barely 3 who can manage the sections at the moment, doesn't seem a great deal of purpose in that. Ease the sections to encourage more participants and those 3 will clean everything.

Outdoors, what will be achieved by stopping section inspection once the event has started. Can't see the top riders having a problem with this when they can break sections up by a stop, line up and have a minder screaming at them where to place their wheels. I could see it being a problem if it has lashed down with rain all night and changed the context of the section though.

As for the crisis in WTC what exactly is it - have the FIM ever declared that WTC is in crisis, let alone what the cause is. Whereas I take little interest in WTC, modern bikes and modern riding techniques excelled at by a few, mean that there will forever be a huge gulf between those few and the rest, no matter how brilliant the rest are - they'll never be able to compete with what is always the top 3 or 4. Even though I much prefer no-stop rules, I just can't see that a change to those rules will make any significant difference to the numbers able to participate. Sure the sections won't be so extreme but your top class modern rider/bike combination are still so good that the sections will still be beyond most. Numbers at a WTC event across all classes are reasonably healthy with around 50 riders in total, so is that a problem.

Cost issues, if cost is an issue - have the FIM stated it is as one? - could be addressed in several areas. Why are promoters needed these days to run an event. As soon as promoters get involved, costs increase. Take Formula 1 where that weasel Ecclestone squeezes every last penny he can from organisations to run a race. Years ago, you paid the track to stage an event at their venue - now the tracks have to pay Ecclestone to run a race with the result that few traditional venues can afford the costs and they are being lost from the calendar, replaced by featureless tracks with no history or character but whose owners have plenty of money to line the weasel's pockets. In trials, there are now what seem like ridiculous demands upon organisers to meet certain criteria before they can stage an event. Huge areas of hardstanding for factory transporters, press tents, internet connection, phone lines, have they got hospitality suites yet for hangers on?

Trials is the cheapest form of motorcycle sport by far, why whould the WTC be any different, it hadn't used to be. Why not take the promoters out, give the events back to clubs, get back to more natural venues, no more factory entourage which never used to be needed so why are they now. So what if the results aren't available on-line within minutes of the last man finishing. No minders with sections to suit - stop or no stop, whichever, but more natural terrain including mud and slop would mean less severe 'big' sections - or has trials gone the way of the old RAC rally now where the FIA say they can't hold it in November because the weather is not good enough....

I can't see that it will ever revert to the days of 100 riders competing in a WTC, rider/bike abilities have progressed too far, whatever the rules, those few that excel are too far ahead for the rest. The current format seems to provide enough riders over all classes. If it is just a cost issue, then there are things that can be addressed.

I do feel strongly though that whatever happens at WTC (and therefore BTC) should not influence the rules and regulations of our club and national events at home. The abilities and ages of riders competing these days are more diverse than they have ever been. There are rules (stop allowed, no-stop) routes, types of event, that suit all of these abilities and as a result, many trials are very healthily supported. As much as I like no-stop, imposing that rule (either rule) nationwide to follow WTC just to 'bring on' someone in the hope that they will one day be world champion would not achieve anything positive. It matters not one bit whether we have a world champion, it would be nice but of no actual benefit to week in-week out trials ridden by all our club and national riders. Leave things as they are, there are events to suit all. If a club wishes to run under either set of rules let them - they know what is best for the land/venue they're running at (take the Lakes this year, great success reverting back to no-stop) In my opinion, its B*****ks to say it's confusing having two sets of rules. Read the regs, it's not difficult to understand whether you can stop or have to keep moving.

[The Addict]

Quote

Trials is the cheapest form of motorcycle sport by far, why whould the WTC be any different, it hadn't used to be. Why not take the promoters out, give the events back to clubs, get back to more natural venues, no more factory entourage which never used to be needed so why are they now. So what if the results aren't available on-line within minutes of the last man finishing. No minders with sections to suit - stop or no stop, whichever, but more natural terrain including mud and slop would mean less severe 'big' sections - or has trials gone the way of the old RAC rally now where the FIA say they can't hold it in November because the weather is not good enough....