[Buster]

My wife has a GG 200Pro, and loves the thing.

However, she has one real problem with it. And she'd KILL me if she knew I was divulging her secret here.

But I'm gonna anyway.

The problem is her short, girly legs don't have the strength to start the stupid thing, especially when cold. She was fine with her old '96JTR 270, but with the smaller bore 175cc there is a marked increase in compression it seems. Couple that with a shorter kickstart lever AND shorter distance that lever travels, well, I am often pressed into service to press that lever into service.

This annoys, frustrates, embarasses and humiliates her no end. She's done a stretch of leg strengthening exercises, stood on an elevated block on the left side of the bike to get more leverage, etc., all to no effect.

So what I want to know is: is a 4-stroker easier to kick over than a 2-stoke of the same displacement? I mean, as a general rule. I know my wife would hate to give up a bike that weighs only a few pounds more than her mountain bike, and is the only bike she's ever been able to hop the rear wheel on, but all of that is moot if she can't get the thing rolling in the first place. So I'm seriously considering checking out a smaller 4-stroke for her. (I guess Scorpa is the only one so far to offer anything smaller than a 250?)

Thanks for any input, guys. You'll be contributing to my ongoing marital harmony

[Buster]

In a word: no.

We've already tried. Added an extra base gasket, retarded timing, etc.

Lengthening the kickstart lever even a short distance brings it protruding up over the seat. Rotating it forward is not an option either.

So...no. Believe me, that would be my favorite course to take.

I'm not even sure she'll be willing to make the switch anyway, even if we found out 4-strokes . She's very brand loyal. But if I can convince her that she won't need me to follow her around in case she stalls her bike, so I can re-start it for her, she might possibly be persuaded.

[charliechitlins]

That's why, when she went shopping for a husband, she picked a 230 pounder!
In my experience, it's much more technique than weight or strength.
I've seen big, macho guys (like you, big boy ) get frustrated because they can't budge a Harley kicker, but I've also known a 125lb woman who rode a kick-only Sportster.
It's like when you swing a sledgehammer, you hold it loosely and let its weight do the work.
When kicking a big bike, it's more a matter of sort of jumping up and using your body weight.
When I kick a Harley, I am very wary of my reconstructed knee (because a slipping kicker gear could send me to the hospital), so I keep it slightly bent and hold it in that position, and all the force is applied with my weight(no cracks!). One of the keys is to make sure you keep a little pressure on at all times to take up the slack. If you''re coming down, and the slack takes up and the ratchet 'hits', it won't work.
Of course, when I do this, my sidestand is firmly planted on pavement, and the kick pedal is much closer to the ground than on a trials bike.
I do it sort of the same way with my trials bike, though.
I hoist myself up (watch it) with my left foot on the peg, balance momentarily while I get my right foot on the kicker, and come down with my weight.
You could help her practice by holding the bike upright for her (I do this for Zak when he is having trouble).
She could also lean her handlebat on a tree so she can get up on the pegs.
And that'll be $20 or I tell the wifey you told her secret on an international forum.

[Buster]

Hey, it's 220...and dropping, thank you Dr. Atkins!

Hey Charlie, YOU tell her she's using improper technique. I've been kicking over bikes since my dad taught me on his '68 Sachs Boondacher, and I haven't been shirking my duties trying to impart those years of wisdom to her. I've shown her regular kicks, kicking standing astride using her other leg, kicks with the bike held in place so she can stand on both pegs, dropping her down from a height with all her weight, even facing the bars and kicking FORWARD.

She has single handedly made me question not only the existance of a benificent god, but also the laws of physices. She's had that thing since new in '02. That's THREE YEARS of fiddling with her technique.

Nada.

Zip.

Zilch.

Ugatz.

Seriously guys, I appreciate the suggestions for how to get her current bike moving. Very nice of you. But - can anybody answer my original question? IE: are 4 strokes generally easier to kick than a 2-strok of the same engine size?

Thanks!

(And Charlie - what are you doing goofing off on the web? Shouldn't you be looking for gainfull employment so your kids can have something to eat again one of these days?)

[Woody]

Buster, on Jun 30 2005, 12:55 PM, said:

That's THREE YEARS of fiddling with her technique.

That's something else she's going to kill you for when she finds you've divulged it on a public forum.....

[Buster]

HAHA! Yeah, you're probably right.

At least she won't be able to start her Gasser to chase me down, if I get a head start!

[colly]

put another base gasket on?

[Buster]

Thanks HondaRS, hadn't thought of that. One of my first bikes was a '73 Sherpa-T fitted with a compression release, and found it very useful. And of course, being 13 years old, was endlessly entertained by the fart sound

Hi Colley - thanks for your thoughts. We actually did put the extra base gasket on, first thing. Great mod, too. Much smoother power delivery for her. Unfortunately, it didn't really make an appreciable difference when it came to the ammount of force needed to kick it over.

Really though - as much as I am grateful for everybody's thoughts on how to make her adapt better to her current machine - does anyone have an opinion on my original question?? (For those who don't care to scroll back to the other two times I asked it: Is a 4-stroker easier to kick over than a 2-stroke of the same displacement?)

Thanks!

[sideup]

Buster,
I own a 4rt. I have also started the Scorpa 125, and the Sherco 4s.
Without exception they all "Kicked over" easier than my previous 2 strokes.
Starting a 4 stroke seems more like a pushing motion vs. a fast kick that the 2 stroke needs. In fact that method was recomended by my dealer.
Next time your out riding, just casually suggest she try to kick one over.
I would think it would really be a ego boost to have a bike she can start, over the loyalty thing.
Jack

[Buster]

F I N A L L Y !

Thanks very much Jack. I'm thrilled to hear from someone who's had the opportunity to compare.

And you're right - once she realizes she owns a bike that starts when she wants it too, I'm betting she'll switch allegiances pronto.

Thanks again!

[cota4rt]

The Cota4RT starts very easily... have her give it a go.

[Buster]

I certainly will, if I ever see one around here. Thanks Cota

[james111089]

My scorpa 125f kicks over real easy when youve got the nack.
If you try kicking it over like a twostroke it just doesnt happen.
You just need full choke , no throttle and a nice swift kick.

James

[Buster]

Thanks James, I appreciate the thoughtful advice!

[trialsurfer]

How close are you to Keystone Cycle? Dominic would be happy to show you the Mont, and you can start it with your hand!