NO offence intended , but that's pretty much how I've started EVERY bike for the last 40+ years.
I don't think it's ever taken 10 kicks to start mine ,90% of the time it starts 3-4 cold , 1-2 hot . As long as I keep off the throttle.
None taken. My experience is with 125 MX and Enduro bikes, they are one hard kick, hot, cold whatever and you are up and running.
Your experience is with big bore bikes and I bet you're a bigger guy based on your list of bikes, I'm 68kg... My friends who are 100kg need a 450cc bike to keep up with my 125 in the bush.
Anyway this soft kick proceedure is not bad, still too many kicks but its not exhausting at least.
I think once we have my map updated or confirmed as map 13, reset the tps and up the idle speed maybe, just maybe I can get started in 3-4 kicks cold and in this case add the LSS and I can quit researching a solution and go riding more :-)
I'll make a video in about a week after my software is all done and I'll detail the start proceedure so hopefully others with issues won't have to suffer like I have!!
On the recommendation of Stevo - he says to lean the bike on against a tree or put it up on a stand.
Stand up on the kick starter and lightly jump on it, not really kicking it, just jumping on it and a bit of a kick to get it moving. Do not bother to get top dead centre, just keep kicking it in this manner. This lets the starter go through the stoke smoothly without stopping. If it stops then you need to use a bit more force.
This technique is not exhausting, you are just initially jumping on the kick start a little then letting your weight finish it off.
Initially when Stevo explained this to me I was just using my weight which wasn't enough at 68kg, you do need to jump on it a little but not much.
The outcome, bike fired in 12 kicks and 3 more easy kicks and it was running so 15 kicks total (which is far too many) but this was not an exhausting proceedure.
Normally I am using 10 MAN KICKS to get it going which is exhausting, this was not many more easy kicks and its going.
I will continue to use this technique for the time being.
You do not need to kick it hard at all to get it to start like this.
When standing on the ground with no trees around - well its still hard to kick but anyway I have a "cold start" technique that'll get me going without being knackered at the start of the right.
Thanks Stevo!
At the recommdation of our importer, I have also changed the fuel from Shell V-Power to standard Shell unleaded, and I have changed the oil from GRO Offroad-1 at 100:10 to Motorex Synthetic at 110:1
I don't think the fuel has made any difference to the starting and I have never foulded a plug although the plug when checked was very oily and carboned up so for sure it would have foulded eventually. I'm told by others that the lower octane fuel with the Motorex oil will be less likely to foul plugs so I will run with that for the time being.
It looks like the computer cables and software have not shown up at my dealer so it will probably be next week before the computers can be checked.
What is going on when all these kicks are happening? Well, you not building up a magic charge in the capacitor behind the number plate. We had this tested and it holds charge for 2-4 seconds.
What we believe is going on is that you are priming the fuel pump and building up fuel pressure, soon as you have pressure - bang off it goes.
I'm fairly confident the LSS will resolve everyone's problems. One has to question why these were not included from the word go, and secondly why are they still not readily available. I cannot see that there is going to be much technology to it. The sooner Ossa makes these units readily available they sooner they will have more happy customers running around as free sales people for them.
I love the Ossa, but if you can't start it, you can't ride. Hopefully there is some light at the end of the tunnel.
Its funny some people say the clutch is hard but at the last trial 10 guys rode or bikes and all said WOW the clutch is so light :-)
Also I believe you can change the clutch master cylinder and run a bigger hose if you want to make it feather light, the USA guys seem to know how to do this. Its not something I would bother with.
I'll be fixing mine with a Gas Gas if the importer doesn't sort my issues very shortly.
Its really interesting that other Australian riders are having issues as the importer would have me believe that the other 60 odd Ossa owners in Australia have no problems.
I believe my bike is running very rich going off the plug which is oily and carboned up, I'm supposed to have Map 13 but I won't know for sure until my dealer receives the cables which the importer is posting to him this week.
Fingers crossed for a happy ending but I'm not holding my breath given that other Map 13 users are experiencing issues.
I'm planning to fit the 10T from sprocket to my fathers bike so it gets revved a bit more, at the moment he barely gets past an idle but we are yet to foul a plug.
If it starts for you, I wouldn't touch it although everyone on Map 13 seems happy. The importer told me my bikes are on Map 13 but I am concerned that this maybe not the case since other people on that Map are saying that starting is not a big issue.
It seems that the distributors in UK, Canada and HK do an excellent job. They have all offered some advice and assistance.
The trials market in Australia is small, some dealers only sell a couple of bikes per year so I understand the difficulty in setting them all up with expensive software and all that but surely Ossa themselves should be doing something to make that equipment affordable.
The support here in Australia frankly is disappointing and not good enough.
I am really hoping my problems get sorted in the next week as I've nearly had enough of these bikes.
I rode today, 13 kicks to start it from cold. Once going I stalled it once and stopped once quickly, it started 1st kick both times. I had visitors who I chatted to for 10 minutes, 10 kicks to start it after only 10 minutes!!
It is beyond a joke and I am really regretting buying these bikes without a test ride as I would never have purchased knowing I would have the starting issue. I did my research, it seemed there was an issue and as long as you had the latest map all was well - so I ordered on the basis that both bikes were to come with the latest map. It seems that either this wasn't done or due care was not taken to ensure the maps, tps and idle were set correctly and as such I havn't had a very good month with them...
I changed the plug today, the old plug even though its not done much work looked terrible, black, oily and some carbon build up - so much for fuel injection with perfect mapping??
I have used the Iridium plug this time, BPR5EIX-11 set gap at 0.7mm as per the manual. Starting was no easier or harder with the new plug, power does feel slighly more agressive - I actually prefer the feel with the standard BPR5ES plug but I will leave this one for now in the hope it doesn't carbon up as bad.
Last week the importer said he would fly here this week to check the maps and fix the issue. He has not confirmed the appointment yet but hopefully it will resolve our problem.
One of the bolts fell out of the kick starter tonight, glad it happened in the shed and not on a trial!
I have locktite it into place.
I think maybe the data cables and software are expensive for the dealer according to the importer, since the dealer only sells 3 or 4 Ossa bikes per year they probably won't want to invest in the equipment.
If mine don't get fixed by this update I will be selling one if not both of them which will be sad since I enjoy riding this bike so much but if I can't start it more easily then they are useless. My father is 60 years old and is a small guy, 60kg (not that I am much bigger at 68kg) and he nearly had heat stroke on the last trial from the trouble starting the bike...
What is the go with using the Explorer map? How does this differ from the Tr280i map?
It is looking like the importer will fly into my area next week to check the computers in my bikes to work out why they are so difficult to start. I want to ensure we get it right while he is here because the local dealer does not have the cables or software to check the maps himself.
Its looking like the idle on both bikes maybe too low. The bikes are supposed to be on Map 13 already but we need to check this as apparantly if they are not uploaded in the correct proceedure the maps don't take so its possible that we might not be on the latest maps.
Its been very frustrating, hopefully we get sorted next week otherwise I am going to have one if not two bikes for sale as they are just far too difficult for two 60kg guys to start how they are right now. Fingers crossed for some magic after the computer fiddle.
When you change your oil it is best to have the oil at operating temperature so it will flow more freely.
I do crack the cover for an oil change and carefully measure what comes out, have mostly came up with 290 ml.
Not a GRO fan, either gear oil or 2t. and use 75w light gear oil.
How did the bikes go at the Easter Trial ?
We were crapping ourselves when we walked the sections, we'd only ridden the bikes around the yard once!
Friday afternoon and Saturday were fairly terrible, I was asking myself what had I gotten us into.
Aside from being ready to pass out from heat stroke by the time I got them started, the bikes were great! I just love mine, once it starts easy it'll be perfect. I rode a pretty knarly hill climb about 10 times which no-one expected me to get up being a beginner. I'm just amazed by the power and grip.
I'm working with the importer to get our maps and tps checked - unfortunately the local dealer doesn't have the cables or software at this time so other arrangements are being made. The importer has been great and I'm sure he'll fix this issue for us before much longer.
I was starting Dad's a lot for him and at one point he rode off and I just couldn't get mine to start. Luckily someone noticed me missing and came to lend a hand.
Dad ended up swapping his for a Beta 200 with one of the ladies for the first day. She was stoked to have a new bike and he was happy to have one that started easily! As a lady, she couldn't start it either but she wasn't embarassed at all to ask a passing rider to start it for her :-) She was also a lot better on the clutch so wasn't stalling it at all which Dad was going a lot.
I'm pretty much happy with mine other than starting.
On Sunday we both did really well, I rode every section and managed to clear a few of them. Dad stuck to the first 3 sections and just kept doing them over and over and he cleared most of them several times by the end of the day.
For Dad, we've ordered the following parts to make it easier for him:
1. 10t front sprocket
2. slow action throttle
I'm looking into the following items:
1. exploring softer fork springs, Dad is only 60kg and the front is too firm - is there any pre-load spacers that can be removed or do we just need lighter springs?
2. Might consider the flywheel weight as well to make it more difficult to stall, havn't looked into pricing on this item as yet.
3. Idle needs increasing on Dad's, its VERY slow and as such easy to stall if you arn't on the throttle and clutch all the time.
Second day was a lot better, we didn't even try and start the bikes without leaning against a tree so not as much energy was expanded. I also left Dad to start his own bike which meant I wasn't as knackered.
PS. Both bikes were hot when we did the oil, Dad's oil was still really thick - I guess his had 75w in it and I think mine probably had the 10w30.
I dont have an OSSA (impatiently waiting for the explorer), but on my other trials bikes, I get about an 1.5hrs ride time when out on the trails on the single track. The beta has a long range tank, so that increases it up to 4hrs. The GG has a hebo 1litre tank on the front, which increases it to about 2hrs. The OSSA is probably similar.
Get a couple of 1litre bottles (like camping fuel stove bottles) and put them in a pack on your back. Or you can mount a couple of bicyle water bottle holders to the front and mount the bottles there.
I got too impatient to wait for the Explorer and decided I'd buy both. We might trade one of our TR280i's for an explorer depending on how Dad gets on with this bike once we've got starting and stalling sorted out for him.
I have one of those camping fuel bottles, might get some new ones though as the lid on mine is a bit stripped and I wouldn't want it leaking down my back.
I'm not banking on much more than an hour of propper trail riding, maybe I'll stick with the KTM and wait for the Explorer to arrive for trail riding.
We've got a bit of a wait in Australia as getting them road registered is a bit of a mission so most likely it'll be the end of the year before we'll have access to a road legal version. Not that we'll use them on the road much but you need a registered bike to ride in state forrests here.
Can anyone give me some sort of idea what kind of run time / mileage I can expect while trail riding on a TR280i?
I've seen a few people mention running out of fuel and I'm a bit paranoid re-fueling at every opportunity but am thinking of doing a longer ride we normally do on the Enduro bikes and worried about the fuel situation.
The procedure is laid out in a document available via the importer to your dealers.
I had had 5 ossa's at a ride day here and not one issue with starting and running at any engine temp. however all set at 1400 rpm, tps at at .6 V and map 13. hope this all helps you out. BTW, this set up of your idle and tps take about 15 min at most, and only needs to be done once. This is not a complicated procedure or onerous on the rider. I had a report of hard starting and through questioning it turned out the rider was running 80:1 mixture???. Sometimes its just a maintenance or small set up issue.
I'm quietly confident that you've discovered our problem with the TPS and idle speed. I'm waiting to hear back from the importer.
We are running GRO Off Road - 1 oil at 100:1 - so far we havn't had any plugs foul etc, I'm confident that this isn't a user problem, although we are new to trials we've been riding and racing bikes for all our lives.
It's not user adjustable, your dealer sets both the idle and tps with the diagnostic program. 1400 rpm is a good healthy idle, (you will see) anything less on map 13 and you will have trouble starting.
there are no starting issues on map 13 therefore if a rider has issues they must look to maintanence or set up issues. cheers
I think you might be onto something here, thank-god and Borus - maybe there is a fix for this issue. I know the bikes idle differently, this is for certain which would suggest that the idle wasn't set.
Do you have any Ossa supporting documentation I can go back to the dealer with?
did your dealer set your tick over at 1400 rpm and tps at .6v after loading map 13? this is a new procedure, should only have to be done once, sorry to tell you but your starting issues are not normal on map 13 with this additional set up done. cheers
That is a very good question - I've just emailed the dealer to ask. I don't think he has touched the tick over since both bikes idle at different speed. The 2011 idle is very slow and as such my father is stalling the bike a lot while he is getting used to it, the 2012 is a little faster although neither of them idle quickly. I'd prefer a faster idle on both bikes.
My kick starter is still rubbing a bit and fails to return at least half of the time - do you have the same issue? Any chance you can post a picture of how you modded yours?
That is BS on the LSS not being required with Map 13.
I have a 2011 and a 2012. Both have fresh filters, fresh fuel, new plugs and Map 13. They are not easy to start, the absolute best I have ever had from Cold was 3 kicks on the 2011 today. The 2012 took 10 kicks. The 2011 has a lot more hours on it and in general is easier to start than the 2012 which only has a few hours on it.
Once warmed up, they'll start with between 1-5 GOOD kicks. Girlie kicks won't fire it under any circumstance.
Generally the HOT starting isn't bad but its far more difficult than it should be.
I stalled on a stage today in a creek and it took like 10 kicks as I couldn't get a good kick into it with wet boots and my left foot in a hole.
Almost the entire club had a ride on our bikes and they loved them, but everyone commented that they were hard to start.
Ossa TR 280i hard to start
in OSSA
Posted
None taken. My experience is with 125 MX and Enduro bikes, they are one hard kick, hot, cold whatever and you are up and running.
Your experience is with big bore bikes and I bet you're a bigger guy based on your list of bikes, I'm 68kg... My friends who are 100kg need a 450cc bike to keep up with my 125 in the bush.
Anyway this soft kick proceedure is not bad, still too many kicks but its not exhausting at least.
I think once we have my map updated or confirmed as map 13, reset the tps and up the idle speed maybe, just maybe I can get started in 3-4 kicks cold and in this case add the LSS and I can quit researching a solution and go riding more :-)
I'll make a video in about a week after my software is all done and I'll detail the start proceedure so hopefully others with issues won't have to suffer like I have!!