We are talking about 6 trials for goodness all the other events can be no stop but why put the top few at a disadvantage.
The entries at btc are limited, so by that measure as it is its a success.
If the wtc is stop allowed those 6 events should be the same.
I have been to lots of wtc events over the past few years and maybe scotland was a no run up trial but the truth is somewhat different to what you describe.
I can quite happily speak from experience that they are hard due to having no run up. I've done the past 2 years minding in the wtc so I have a good idea what I'm talking about.
I don't think that if the limit on the btc was 85 instead of 55 would have made any difference with the stopping rules. Maybe it will increase the entries being more manageable. You have to remember that the bulk of the entry are non supported riders and it's hard earned cash paying for the privilege to ride. 6 or 8 riders on the top route isn't sustainable and neither would the wtc without the junior and youth classes. Will 6 trials limit the top lads in the wtc? I personally don't think so. The importers are the ones supporting our top riders and i'm sure they will dictate what the riders ride to an extent whether they like it or not. When Britain had riders pushing genuinely for wtc glory there was Doug, Colley, Jarvis all in the running to win rounds and the rules were..... a version of no stop! It's not the fault of the ACU for acting on a flagging championship, the FIM are the ones that should change in my opinion.
Lots of people have posted that 80 - 99% of UK competitors dont care about WTC and would prefer just one rule and thats no stop so why dont we have a poll on TC.
Good point but it wouldn't show the truth as a lot of people on here are "know it alls" that don't even ride!
The problem with the world championship is that it's too hard and costs too much to get to. That is the whole problem! Why is it too hard? Because of the rules and everything has to have no run up! I've been to all the rounds apart from Japan this year and I can assure you this is the truth. British championship at
Remember the good old days ? Well there aren't any.
Johnny Rotten The Sex Pistols
Let's not go back to the days the world was run by old farts making the rules to suit old farts.
The gap with experts is wider simply because they put in more effort than the good ole days. All sport has F1 in the 60-70s were on the beer the night before a race now they have become athletes.
I bet the no stoppers are post 40 and can't balance hence lets bugger up the progress and take it back to good ole worldy 1971 flat caps n pie n peas.
If they make the WTC no stop I'm sure it will be the best idea ever!
Why are you against it so much? Is it that the hopping rule suits you because you can have 1 foot down and completely move the bike where you want to and it's only a 1? That is no skill in trials and I can assure you that is part of what makes trials farcical and why people are gunning for a change. You shouldn't be able to move the bike around with your feet down, it's ludacris and defeats the whole object of the job.
if they want bigger numbers ,ease the b route a bit more and put in a over 40's class or 'masters class' ,some good rider's still and may be the biggest class.
I think that is possibly the intention without adding another class
Just a thought but if the world champs went no stop wouldn't that suit our top lads better than the foreigners? After all we do run the two biggest no stop trials in the world!
Maybe someone can invent a device that beeps when the front wheel stops moving. A speedo sensor could be adapated. That way the rider knows he's stopped, as do the crowd and crucially the observer does too.
The importers could supply at cost price to help promote no stop if this is their worry?
What about when the front wheel is in the air and when it's locked solid going down a muddy rut?! Doesn't work unfortunately! Good, fair observing is the only way.
Is that David Leather in runner up position? He made a comeback about 10 years or so ago and was still fairly handy. Had a bit of a pornstar tache from what I remember!
The big point you are missing is that there was only one route when Dougie, Jarvis, Colley etc were in the top flight of the WTC. It was exactly the same when Raga and Bou have come through the ranks to where they are now at the top of the sport. You may also find Raga learnt his trade when the rules were stop for a 1 so you are missing the point. It's not the rules holding back the progression of the next top British rider, it's the fact they are stuck in the Junior/ youth classes until they are the age Tarres, Dougie and Toni won their first world championships.
One Yes I knew the AGM was on but did not receive an Agenda. Generally that means no changes. As I had been in touch regarding other matters this should have been mentioned as it was a couple of years ago and then riders turned out to vote Stop in.
Two The Pro's include the Spanish and they are not going to allow the rules at that level to change. Hence The British Pro riders may well have to forsake the BTC for events that run to the same rules as the WTC. No change as the "top" riders will still "hop". Only if the Manufacturers allow it or the Importers are prepared to put up the cash will they be able to do the BTC.
Three As for Getting better, the riders doing Stop are better!! After all when they do turn out the No-Stoppers don't fare that well.
Top riders will still be top riders regardless of rules, I think we have established that.
Who actually cares about world championship? There's only 10 of them that ride and it costs a fortune to do so is out of the reach of the vast majority.
You clearly don't understand the idea behind all this is to make the sport less elitist not what just suits one rider.
What are your views with the reversing with the "brilliant" hopping rule? It's a joke! Easier sections observed properly is key and we can return back to the sport which is trying to get through sections without dabbing and not who can hop round as quick as they can
No stop is terrible. most trials dont have venues that can accomodate no stop that well. So five a beginner for stopping and young kids to under mines there efforts, or just allow a stop "go one young en good effort". Or a comment i hear is i will allow a 2-3 second stop.
They don't know if they are getting better if they get away with things. Same rules for everybody, the sections will soon change to accommodate it
who are the riders that are not riding now because its stop allowed?
Is Joe bloggs suddenly going to go out and buy a second hand bike cos it goes no stop?
In our club its stop allowed but the easy route is always set out no stop style so where are these mythical new riders coming from?
I didn't say anything about ex riders, surely we're trying to encourage new riders to the sport?
I think a few clubs claim to lay trials out in the no stop style so why not just observe it no stop aswel?
A good example of why no stop is better for the masses is the Wallace cup which is not a million miles from you dabster. When it's no stop the sections are much better than when it's hopping rules, people haven't paid their hard earned money to sit in a queue and most people will go home happy. When these types of trials run hopping rules it's just a farce and I seem to remember you posting something similar yourself! Which rules do you want dabster? It would be interesting to hear!
So when the pro,s ride no-stop, he will still want to copy them and ride no-stop, simples!
Well said!
The big reason no stop is being looked as is because it's more manageable which therefore increases rider participation which is what it's all about! I remember this mass-debate when the rules were changed before but it doesn't take long to learn how to ride no stop especially when you get fived for stopping a few times!
It's not all the old riders that want no stop at all. This is the point you miss. I for one think that there are too many trials running on the same days within a close proximity of eachother. That is a completely different argument though. When I started riding the rules were stop allowed and you could reverse feet up but were penalised for a stationary dab. I didn't think much of no stop until I tried it and practised it. Do you think Doug moaned about it as when stop for a 1 was introduced he had just won his first world championship? Did he buggery! He went out and learnt how to ride without stopping! People seem to think that technical sections aren't possible no stop which couldn't be further from the truth. Riders just need to give it a try and know that they will be fived for stopping, simple!
Why would the ACU wish to do that? Currently clubs can shoose from either, we run three trials under TSR22A and four trials under TSR22B, no problem, everyone's happy. What would the ACU gain by making clubs use one or the other?
The basic idea is that trials has 2 scoring systems which is complicated for observers and the aim is to simplify things nationwide. Think you may find the BTC will be running no stop and maybe others will follow the trend. I can only relay what I've been told. If it helps the participant sport that it is grow then I'm all for it. I don't see why people are worried, why not just give it a try!
I Doubt it. Many clubs still have Stop rules and prefer them. As I stated I don't like the tactics employed here.
We will see wont we!
I don't honestly see the problem you have with no stop, maybe it's down to that your lad isn't as good at no stop. Who knows! I wonder if Bradford will follow the trend.
Yeah I'm fully aware of the riders you mention and I know them all very well. What I've never understood is how the Yorkshire centre championship is run under 2 sets of rules. Not saying its a bad thing at all but surely to compete you have to be able to ride no stop? I think you may find that all the importers are backing the return to no stop as it makes it more of a riders sport which it always has been. The modern technique is quite easily applied and if you watch Toni Bou at his best then he is always moving forward! How many riders would pack up if it went no stop? My guess is not more than a small handful, and how many may be inclined to buy a bike and have another go? Quite a few is my guess
I am guessing Mr Telecat is basically referring in his post that every other club in the Yorkshire Centre is crap apart from Yeadon Guiseley. That couldn't be further from the truth. Yorkshire is obviously a fairly prominent trials area but it's not as prominent with top riders as it used to be. Look at the fact that the Lampkins/ Hemingways, Dan Thorpe, Tony Scarlett, Phil Disney etc have been riding years and years and are still winning most centre trials and even nationals. We need the younger riders to learn how to ride proper trials as hopping and flicking about is false. I don't dispute for 1 minute that it's not skillful and I'm very competent at it myself but it's so boring! The trouble I see is if I'm blatantly honest is that no stop is a leveller and you know for a fact that many of the young hoppers will end up sliding down the results!
After reading all the posts so far, and also from the general consensus at trials I've been at recently, to me the views seem very closely split between stop and non stop. It seems, without trying to stereotype, that the new riders to the sport, be it old or young, seem to generally like the rules they have inherited, whilst the riders who have been around a bit longer remember back to when stop was a one (or five).
There have also been arguments that it's because the new riders have learnt to hop and therefore have the advantage and want to keep it, but this is not always the case, with some experts preferring to ride in non stop trials, or move away to enduro or motocross.
To me, Dan Beaven (above) has hit the nail on the head. Trials is about enjoyment. Whilst I can hop to a fairly decent level, if not as good as others, I far prefer the flowing trials as hopping to line up for big steps can get a bit repetitive. I prefer a trial that uses all the terrain, mixing in mud, hill climbs etc, with the big steps and more technical going.
For this reason, I am happy that the South East Centre has chosen to go non stop, and will be riding in them next year. I was getting close to stopping riding altogether as this year has worn on, as the fun from the day was becoming less and less as good sections and good trials were not as enjoyable as they used to be because of too many tight turns.
However, I do understand the need to have these sort of sections in for the experts, as they do need to practice the skills they are going to use in the BTC, and therefore this is a bold decision that the centre has made.
Well said!
You have hit the nail on the head with why people are all for the no stop argument. I always thought that the southern centres would never contemplate no stop but they have and I applaud this bold decision. There is a video on the world championship chat forum of a certain Bernie Schreiber doing a stunning pivot turn. This is what no stop can offer and just look at the response from the crowd! When the stop for a 1 rule was introduced in 1998 everybody had to learn how to do it and it took time. To me riders just want everything instantly without having to work for it nowadays and instead of learning the flowing riding style they are allegedly prepared to pack in which is a sad state of affairs.
I was speaking obviously hypothetically about golf! The trouble is with how trials is at present is that there is only the SSDT and the Scott where an average club rider could say they rode the same course as the top riders. The BTC of old used to attract well over 100 riders all riding the same course whereas now its a maximum of 55 of us hopping into a rut as fast as we can and parking in a cow s**t field in the middle of nowhere! The ACU don't see this is a problem but with the price of fuel as it is it won't be sustainable for much longer as it costs on average around
I personally think if the BTC was no stop then it would get more entries but more to the point it would allow more entries. At present it's limited to 55 which is all due to the 90 seconds per section and after the stopwatch has been reset and card punched it is roughly an extra minute on top of that. I see the arguments both ways but for the majority no stop is beneficial and makes better riders. Trials is the only sport I know where it's impossible to complete the same course as the top men. In golf we could all attempt the masters course but most of us would know we would do a round in the hundreds but we could still attempt it. I know trials is a bit unique but we seem to have routes for everybody now which is another thing I don't completely agree with. Fair enough the hard, middle and easy routes but I've seen trials with 5 routes which is a bit unnecessary. The world championship is like the titanic, it's hit the iceberg and is sinking. They have a problem which doesn't allow any progression because the kids are stuck on 125's till they are 18 whereas when Raga and Bou etc came through the ranks they could ride 250's. This holds riders back and it's like learning again when they jump on a 300 from a 125. I think stuff what they do at the WTC and let's make it better for riders in the UK as it is a participant sport after all.
No stop
in UK Trials Talk
Posted
I can quite happily speak from experience that they are hard due to having no run up. I've done the past 2 years minding in the wtc so I have a good idea what I'm talking about.
I don't think that if the limit on the btc was 85 instead of 55 would have made any difference with the stopping rules. Maybe it will increase the entries being more manageable. You have to remember that the bulk of the entry are non supported riders and it's hard earned cash paying for the privilege to ride. 6 or 8 riders on the top route isn't sustainable and neither would the wtc without the junior and youth classes. Will 6 trials limit the top lads in the wtc? I personally don't think so. The importers are the ones supporting our top riders and i'm sure they will dictate what the riders ride to an extent whether they like it or not. When Britain had riders pushing genuinely for wtc glory there was Doug, Colley, Jarvis all in the running to win rounds and the rules were..... a version of no stop! It's not the fault of the ACU for acting on a flagging championship, the FIM are the ones that should change in my opinion.