To me that seems about right, Most english based companys are quoting about £150.00. But be very careful you check out the company first as quality can vary from company to company.
You might think this expensive but hard chrome on forks is not simple chrome plate. They have to remove the existing chrome usualy grinding back, make any repairs neccessary, plate the legs and then grind to size and finaly polish/linish to obtain the correct surface finish.
Were did you get the cast iron from, I want a piece to do pursang drum.
I deal with loads of metal suppliers at work, not one can supply cast!
I have used differnt suppliers in the past and agree it is getting harder to obtain. last one I did I purchased the cast iron from "College engineering supply.
It depends on the year but the later Frontera/Alpina hubs are a bigger diameter and by definition more powerful. I have a M166 350 Alpina and also a M215 Frontera and both have 140mm front and rear and whilst I agree are more powerful still suffer from all the same issues that the smaller Sherpa ones do.
On my M199 I relined the front hub with a very good quality cast iron. (had to buy a slice from a solid bar and machine out the center which took me about 3 evenings to just produce the insert) The back plate was bushed so the pivots were perfect. I have never liked the Nurfen linnings so the shoes were relined with linings normaly used for fork lift trucks and then machined for a 100% contact fit in the drum. Result, powerful working brakes that I can easily lock the front wheel in most sections with one finger. Needs a bit more pull when on the road.
Why fit a disc brake when the originals can be made to work?
In my humble oppinion trying to bung the gap with various goo's just does not work. Provided the warp is not to big I would mount the cover on a milling machine and skim the face flat. You have to be carefull not to remove to much material as clutch clearance is not great. You should have on the M121 an earlier style cover that has a bit more clearance than the later shape. Quite interesting or challenging setting up and clamping but I have done this and it works. I might be biased as I have a milling machine in the garage.
And yes I have a Pursang in the shed. Based on the frame and engine number the 20th M120 built. So a genuine pre 74 bike.
The original poster asked "Do you know how many are out there?"
In my oppinion far to many.
I restored a 125 a few years ago. The plan was to use it for youngters to have a go. It had not enough power for my 12 stone and far to big and heavy for the planned youngsters who were more put of than encoraged. The earlier examples had odd size wheels that it is almost impossible to get decent tyres for, later models had full size wheels that at least if you break it for spares will be of some use. Very few other bits common to the it's bigger brothers.
I love Bultaco's and have 7 in the shed at this time. Even If i was given this bike if it is a 125 I would probabaly turn it down.
As per reply from Lerenzo, Your cylinder head is correct for a model 10. They changed to front/back fins for the Model 27 but thay also changed at the same time to a new 5 speed engine. Your engine is defiantly 4 speed model 10. The 5 speed engine would not fit your frame either (engine mounts are different) so you definatly have a model 10. Your tank is also correct for a late model 10 the model 27 tank is different again.
I Can not help with the shock question. I have never seen a picture of a Bultaco trials bike with those top covers but I have a picture of a similar age Rickman Metisse Bultaco scrambler fitted with these and as Rickman were the official importers at the time thiese could be original. Try ringing Inmotion I am sure they will be able to help you with suitable replacements.
A workshop manual does not exist. Dave Renham at Inmotion does a 4 speed engine manual which is probably all you need. Any other questions I suggest you come on here and ask.
I also had a problem. Back in the day it was quite common to drill the rim at the security bolt position and screw self tapping screws into the bead. Obviously not to long! 3 each side at each security bolt position total 12 off. I have done this to My model 80 and I no longer have a problem.
When I bought my brand new 198 in 1978 it was fiited with a flimsy sheet metal guard over the front sprocket. This fitted to the engine using the retaining bolt of the clutch cam in the magneto cover and bolted to the frame near the foot rest. This guard was more of a finger guard and would not have stopped the mud/stone issue being dicussed. Almost the first thing I did when I got this bike was to take this guard of and throw it away. I can not ever recall seeing a bike being ridden with one fitted.
I have done several restorations over the years and I have myself not had a problem removing the fork yokes/steering stems. The earlier bikes may be worse as the "adjusting ring-head bearing" is steel rather than aluminium as on later bikes Soak with a penatrating oil or possibly Diesel if nothing else to hand. Clean up exposed threads with a wire brush and then as they say in the Haynes manual undoo! The spindle should be a tight fit in the bottom yoke and I have come across examples were this is loose and may rotate. If this is the case with your bike you will have an issue and will have to resort to methods best not writtain down on a public forum. The top yoke is a hard to get part but all the other bits are common to other models at the time and come up on ebay particularly in the states quite reguarly so if all else fails.............
Swinging arm spindles can also be very difficult. I restored a 125 Sherpa and had to resort to drilling the spindle out. I marked the end of the spindle and drilled a hole to just inside the frame and then increased this hole size until the spindle was in affect drilled away. Doing this both sides allowed me to remove the swinging arm. The 125 has an advantage over the M10 that it has an engine mount in the middle and I was able to/had to hacksaw through the spindle each side of this as well. When all apart I tried removing the spindle from the rear fork bearings and engine mount in a fly press and despite soaking in penatrating oil for over a week failed! I had to drill out the engine mount and make new spindle and fork bearings. Not difficult but it all took time.
After typing this I am off to the garage to start stripping my M80 engne. I had not ridden the bike for about 5 years and after two trials recently it is making some interesting rummbling noises. I suspect that the layup has not done the main bearings and big end much good. I have a big flypress and I do my own flywheel disassembly and assembly so hope to have it back running by tomorrow evening.
I have an original parts book (Series 2) that I scanned and saved as a pdf. A few years ago I did post this on another site so is available on the web but I can send you a copy. Please PM me your email address if you would like this.
Nice photographs. Engine number no doubt last M10. Tank and frame are series 2. Flat botton tank with single foward bolt on top not side. Steering stop lugs on the downtube. The series 1 has a horizonatal foward bolt with the nuts doubling up as the stops. Only 1 bracket for the engine bash plate and positioned. All this does not match a "0275" frame number so I am more convinced that a 1 has been missed from the frame number in your documents. The Monza fuel filler cap is obviously wrong and I think somebody has changed (for the better) the foot rests for folding items.(Miller?) The top yoke looks original. These were not known for strength and many bikes had this item changed for an after market item. My old M10 had a top yoke which was marketed by Jim Sandiford so it was not just Miller offering parts.
Wicklow, Bit to far for a quick get together to discuss bikes. Out of interest my Luton Minor plane was bought by me after a landing accident not to far from you at Kilrush airfield in Co. Kildare.
The gear should not be a problem just a matter of cost. I have cut gears myself in the past but my biggest issue is getting reliable heat treatment done. The local firm I used for many years has finally closed their doors for good. Trying to get home office jobs through at work is also getting harder (I am a development engineer for Ford working on Diesel engines)
The engine number on the frame should be stamped on the headstock, Does your road tax book give year of first registration. The engine number as stated earlier is the last M10. and would be probabaly early 67. It could have stood in a dealers hence your belief in 1968. The frame number quoted I think is one digit short and I think should match the engine number.
Obviously these old bikes could have been changed over the years so nothing is definate. The first series had the classic roundish tank. The series 2 later bikes had a tank with a flat bottom. They also made the swinging arm slightly longer for the series 2 to try to improve grip in mud.
I have attached photographs of my original M10 that I have since sold (appologies to new owner in Spain!) so you can see the location of the numbers and the fact they match. This bike is in fact a series 2 but somebody had fitted an earlier tank at sometime. My current project has a rusty headstock so does not photograph well.
As I know the importer for the Sherpa model 10 was back then the Rickmann's in the UK, might be a possible source for parts too.
I would suspect that Rickman's would not be able to help as I believe they would have passed on stock to Commerfords when the importer rights changed and they have also changed ownership and location a few times since they were official importers. But as I have never spoken to them what do I know!
Model 10 spares availability dependends on what you are looking for. Quite a few parts were common to other models so can be found with a bit of a search. Believe it or not the frame is not far different from the Mk 1 Matador. Piston and con rod for example not a big issue as common other models but try finding a replacement barrel! New exhausts are being made in Spain. Forget trying to get IRZ carb spares but an alternative carb is a good option. The biggest problm is the 4 speed gearbox. Some gearbox parts are common to other models but the ratio's were unique to this model hence the rarity of some gearbox parts.
I do know of a spare M10 engine in Ipswich but the owner will not part with it and I do not blaim him as it is a source of spares for his complete bike and an M10 engine came up on Ebay about a year ago and sold for over £800
For those who have not ridden one of these bikes the model 10 is quite diffferent from later Bultaco's. The engine was based on a motocross or scramble lump which was intern based on a road bike engine. The bottom line is that you have to rev it hard to get the best out of it and for myself who ride mainly a model 80 and a model 199 this takes a bit of getting used to. Probably out classed these days by tricked Bantams and Cubs but a shame we do not see more out being ridden.
I live in East Anglia and have been trying to get the championship rules changed for quite a few years. They run a pre 70 championship but to compete in this class the bike has to be of British origin so the M10 not eligable for a Pre 70 championship. Never mind it will not be many years before the Dinasaws that make up the comittee of the Eastern Centre ACU will be all dead and I can try again!
Sorry chaps starting to get a bit A**L on this subject. Just been looking at the book Sherpa T the story. Looking up production numbers for another post. Last picture in the book is of a line up of bikes and the caption is "Waiting for guests at the Trial de San Antonio, February 1972" So bikes shown would be latish Model 80's. A small Bultaco sticker under the seat in mid position but no other decals other than the round badges.
Are you sure about the 1968 year? Assuming that the differnce in frame and engine numbers is a typo and that the correct number is 1275 this is an interesting number as the model 10 4 speed production was 1275 total. In other words the last M10. This would be a series M10 series 2 with the flat bottom tank from about early 67 (model 27 intoduced 5/67) If 275 correct please ignor all this!
Inmotion do stock M10 parts but parts for this model can be difficult to come by. The rear brake plate you have missing should not be to difficult as this was common to other models. The broken gear ( I assume a gear sprocket is in fact a gear) is going to be quite a challenge so I wish you luck with that.
Where are you located?
I also have a Model 10 restoration project. I did own a Late M10 series 2 that I have riden in the past. I sold this a few years back ( it went to spain) as I needed the money to help fund rebuilding a crashed single seat light aircraft (Luton Minor). Whilst I was rebuilding the plane I bought an early M10 project that I planned to start restoring when the plane was complete. I did start restoring this bike but then I bought a vintage car project. (1935 BSA Scout Series 1) and the M10 was returned to under the bench. The car is making good progress and should be on the road next year and then the plan is to get back onto the M10 restoration.
Stuart your bike looks very tidy and your tank in real great shape. Where did you get the silencer boxes from - Spain? I have one of the aluminium boxes from the '70s on mine but it's fell apart inside. I'd like to put the proper one on it.
Both silencers on my bike are original so I guess yes from Spain but supplied in 1971!
The main silencer has been modified. The back has had a hole cut into it, a plate brazed across this hole to support the attachment bracket which is now screwed in place. A sheet metal plate secured with self tapping screws and the support bracket allows me to repack the silencer easily any time I require in the future. I am now only running with one silencer and so far not had any noise complaints.
My guess is you have a Sammy Miller alumimium after market silencer. My original M80 I bought in 1977 had one and a small steel spark arrester/silencer attached with a sliding fit and spring about 1.1/2" dia and 3" long that I have been trying to track down another but so far without luck.
Tank unit on my bike is original. Has been lined inside for bl***dy ethenol. It has had repairs underneith but nothing major and what you would expect after all these years.
I have been following the blog of the model 80 restoration. My main concern is the welding shown in some of the photographs. Far to good to be original Bultaco.
I do not mean to upset anybody but how refreshing for a topic not about late 198/199 bikes.
The bottom line it is your bike so put on what decals you like. I believe the model 80 did not have the big Bultaco name on the tank and the kit campeon sticker was only on the model 49.
My own M80 I just have the round Bultaco stickers that fit into the recesses but no other decals or stickers. That's the way I like it.
I have attached a picture of my bike so you can see what it looks like with minimal decals. I have since the photo was taken removed the triangular silencer as it just gets in the way. Any body got one of the small round after market replacement that Sammy Miller used to sell for sale and I would be interested
Please when reading my opening comment be aware I own both a model 198A and 199A and just love all things Bultaco
I suspect your M85 is similar to my M80 sherpa of similar age. my M80 has the correct bolt on seperate foot rest brackets, the spindle is 14mm diameter with thread at each end for a nut. I suspect the 17mm one you have is a later part. My M80 has a grease nipple in the middle but I have owned this bike so long and also owned many other Bultaco bikes over the years so can not be sure if this is original or something I have added.
I can not comment on the exhaust as I have no experiance of doing this. I guess a lot depends on what you want to do with the bike but I have always found that the results of swopping important pipes like this are usualy disapointing but I am happy to be proved wrong.
Nice to hear from a fellow Alpina owner. My own is a later M188
Bultaco, Montesa (pre Honda) and Ossa were caught up in the financial crisis that Spain suffered after Franco died in 1975 and over the next few years changed to a democracy. Quite complicated and I could write quite a long piece on this but in short the factories were over staffed (government policy) and subsidised. As the government changed the subsidies were removed so factories tried to cut staff to affordable levels which lead to strikes and other industrial disputes. In 1978/79 Bultaco had full order books but workers would not allow bikes to leave the factory. Customers after a while cancelled orders.. The rest as they say is history.
I own and have restored a Model 80. My bike is standard apart from a pair of NJB rear shocks and a Mikuni carburettor. The carb fitted I bought from SM products in 1977 (bought by mail order as we called it in them days and sent in a Hurrett speedo box!) so as far as I am concerned is a period mod.
This is the second model 80 I have owned. My first had a Sammy Miller exhaust but I have managed to resist all SM products on my current bike. When I bought this bike I got it cheap as it had a shot big end and stripped exhaust threads to the cylinder. The tank is original but I have lined it (tank care products, Norwich) for ethanol fuel and so far had no problems.
My bike is fitted with an original silencer that has been modified so that the back has a removable panel held on with screws so can be repacked. I have a triangular rear silence but it always gets knocked by my heel so run the bike without this fitted.
:blush:
Bultaco Vs Black Horse
in Bultaco
Posted
Anorak mode.
Note at end states M27.
Whilst I agee bike as discovered looks like a M27 the bike being riden had a radial head and more rounded tank so is more probabaly a M10.
What an irresponsible bike rider scaring Horse and rider. I vote this should be banned
Stuart