scorpa3 Posted November 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 Thank you everyone for your input, especially John. As far as the Novogar rounds are concerned the question has been answered. The Stratford-Upon-Avon Colmore Cup round of the series in March will be One route over 40 sections set out to cater for Clubmen. British Championship riders may enter on a non point scoring basis; whilst we will welcome them, they must understand that the event is likely to be very easy by their standards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the addict Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 Well done Pete, I will be riding next year, and hope I can stay under the 100 mark. I can see the other side of the debate now as well, if there is a second route the Novogar part may just become a 20 man entry with 100 clubman doing the easier route. Not really what its about as stated in other posts, I think some of the problem may be that if British Championship riders enter as non point scorers there may be a temptation for the course setters to make the trials harder to to take marks off the top lads. Need to do plenty of North Berks club trials next year before I tackle the Wallace but hope to be doing it in 08 and get around for an enjoyable day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted November 18, 2006 Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 Thank you everyone for your input, especially John. As far as the Novogar rounds are concerned the question has been answered.The Stratford-Upon-Avon Colmore Cup round of the series in March will be One route over 40 sections set out to cater for Clubmen. British Championship riders may enter on a non point scoring basis; whilst we will welcome them, they must understand that the event is likely to be very easy by their standards. Define clubman, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essex rider Posted November 18, 2006 Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 Define clubman, please. Why did you go and do that for........the debate begins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the addict Posted November 18, 2006 Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 I would count a clubman as a rider who does nt ride in the British Championships. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpa3 Posted November 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 Thank you everyone for your input, especially John. As far as the Novogar rounds are concerned the question has been answered. The Stratford-Upon-Avon Colmore Cup round of the series in March will be One route over 40 sections set out to cater for Clubmen. British Championship riders may enter on a non point scoring basis; whilst we will welcome them, they must understand that the event is likely to be very easy by their standards. Define clubman, please. Now this is the core issue. Everyone has a different method for working out sections. I'll attempt to explain my own approach to the sections which I set out. I consider myself to be an average Club level clubman (actually over 40 now.) In our regular club trials we run three routes. Starting with the easiest C, I make these simple and straight forward. I imagine myself cleaning every one. The middle B route, these have tighter turns, steeper climbs and one of two nastier bits. I imagine myself getting through them all but cleans are a premium. Then there is the A route, I make these tougher with bigger steps or climbs usually with no room for a run up. I can't imagine myself getting through any of them for less than a scabbling three, although usually after the trial I have a go and some aren't quite that bad. Then there are the Colmore sections, these always have bigger climbs usually multiple ones, with the biggest steps I can find (not many around here, all we have is tree lined banks as a rule) with the smallest amount of run up. I know full well that I wouldn't be able to do one single section in the whole trial and wouldn't even try. For the Novogar Colmore 2007, I will be modifying my approach. I am going to set out all of my sections as if they are club A routes. Nothing you wouldn't find in one of our regular club trials on the A route. If it rains overnight (or freezes,like this year) I will ease the sections. There will be a enough room to get straight for the big (bigger) steps and I will take out the kinks from the big climbs. The challenge for the top five will be not to loose that odd dab, I will expect them to go clean on my sections and I won't expect anyone to have all fives on my ones. Hopefully the whole event will be far more rideable for CLUBMEN and Ladies. With luck we will still have an outright non championship winner, it only takes that one lapse of concentration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paioli Posted November 18, 2006 Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 Pete i would have though if you set out the whole trial to take 15 marks off a good non british expert champoinship riding center expert say Mark Hicken, you would not be far out weather permitting, or in other words set it out to good open to center standard, and give the premier trophy to the winning clubman, they deserve it, its their trial,and not to the support class winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpa3 Posted November 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 Pete i would have though if you set out the whole trial to take 15 marks off a good non british expert champoinship riding center expert say Mark Hicken, you would not be far out weather permitting, or in other words set it out to good open to center standard, and give the premier trophy to the winning clubman, they deserve it, its their trial,and not to the support class winner. Trouble is, (no disrespect intended) if riders like Mark, John Cowley, Steve Workman or Colin Crease score 15 or so, the top five are all going to be close to clean. It's a catch 22 situation. We know what we want to do but only time will tell if we can achieve it. As for the Colmore Trophy, I suspect that will still have to go to the overall winner although the club could consider awarding it to the first point scorer. I will bring it up for discussion at the next meeting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paioli Posted November 18, 2006 Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 are you planning on modifying the harder sections to make them more clubman friendly or are you going to set out new sections for next year, or maybe have one hard group just to sort out the top five in the clubman class, still think that if the top clubman wins on under ten it would be a better event for the majority of the clubman entry,hell i might even bring me old ty up and do the o/40 class. hang on, i did say MIGHT ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpa3 Posted November 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 My sections will all be easier than this year. If there is a step, then you will be able to get straight before hitting it unlike this year when the approach to the steps was tight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paioli Posted November 18, 2006 Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 anybody out there know how the Vic Brittian is being marked out ie same as this year/last year or easier? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted November 18, 2006 Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 (edited) Just my thoughts on this as Ive done a few rounds in recent years. The post above mentions the top five being close to zero, if they arent eligible for champioship points as they are too good then I think that s fine. Its important to remember that the non eleigible riders are effectivley guests riding out of class and should not be influencing the severity of the event by their attendance. In a southern trial why not put those riders to the back so that sections are harder for them anyway or in a northern trial put them right at the front. This would allow them to have a more challenging day and perhaps allow the event to be easier for the rest of us. Edited November 18, 2006 by Baldilocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted November 18, 2006 Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 Just my thoughts on this as Ive done a few rounds in recent years.The post above mentions the top five being close to zero, if they arent eligible for champioship points as they are too good then I think that s fine. Its important to remember that the non eleigible riders are effectivley guests riding out of class and should not be influencing the severity of the event by their attendance. In a southern trial why not put those riders to the back so that sections are harder for them anyway or in a northern trial put them right at the front. This would allow them to have a more challenging day and perhaps allow the event to be easier for the rest of us. Good idea but can you see dan thorpe getting a move on if they are slippy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the addict Posted November 18, 2006 Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 He'll have to Nigel or he will run out of time, whats your anwser to the sections then? Very good points from Baldilocks I thought, if they are riding out of class as they are they should be dropping zero, bit like a club expert riding the B route, or bit like a club expert riding the B route and the B route made harder to drop marks from him and the rest struggle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted November 18, 2006 Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 Spot on Paoli-surely we need to have some more discipline about who rides the Novogars because right now for certain riders its like a club expert riding the inter or novice route-it wouldn't be allowed at a club trial but it is at National level. In my humble opinion the British Championship is for the countrys best 12 or so riders, the Expert class caters for the next best 30 and from then on the Novogars cater for everyone else but no-one should be allowed to run in more than one championship at a time so it would take the top guys out of the Novogar and let the lesser lights have a chance of being front runners whilst making it an easier task for organisers to plot sensible sections for the majority. With regular Nationals it would stay as now and anyone could enter so not restricting the top guys. I certainly think when some average ability riders see well known aces entered for Novogars it puts them off entering as they automatically assume the trial will be too hard for them. I agree completely with you on this Speckled Hen I was at both Bikespace's Novogars and they got it spot on both times. Theres enough comps already for the top lads, let them ride them and keep the Novogars for who it was intended for. then you will see bigger entries and greater support IMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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