atomant Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 The thing is, because of this issue, there will probably be more attention to people breaking the rules this year than ever before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapshot 3 Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 Like every sport cheating's been going on forever but if you condone or try to reason why then all you do is a: completely disrespect the event the organisers have put together, b: disrespect your fellow competitors and c: disrespect the sport. If you can live with yourself through that then good luck to you, hope you get caught, hope it's public and sincerely hope you never get near the sport again. Said individual got caught out, he has no entry this year and for sticking the proverbial two fingers up at the organisers I hope his entry "get's lost in the post" every year, same goes for anyone else caught. He couldn't have done this alone so some others out there need to have a good look at themselves but he chose to do it, someone with a bit of honour and respect would have retired, end of. As for the stewards, they have a huge event to look after, they are not omnipresent, you see something, shout!! I do remember one rather vociferous steward in the mid 80's like nothing better than catching French riders bending the rules... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big john Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 Just because he's not on the list, is it a fact he had his entry returned or did he even enter.....As regards swapping bikes it's hardly the first time it's happened and it probably won't be the last, he just got noticed by the wrong people (from his perspective) I'm not condoning it as rules are rules, but he isn't the only one to have ever done it. I know of instances back to the 70s where that happened. Woody, Don't take this personally Woody, but... Fact: The rider was noted by several observers during the event that he had swapped bikes, take a look at the ACU Handbook which gives the definition of an observer, he/she is in effect deputising for the Clerk of the Course! If an observer finds a rider cheating, he/she is the eyes and ears of the CofC during an event, therefore in this case it was blatant and witnessed cheating...as Slapshot says "end of" Fact: I personally know one of the observers who noted the change of machine propulsion on his observers book and I was sitting beside the said observer at Pipers Burn section when the competitor had just ridden the section on a four stroke having ridden a previous day on a two-stroke! The rider got caught 'fair and square' in this occassion and in an ideal world would normally have been excluded for breaking the rules. Big John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 Fact is that everybody and their brother up there knew damned fine what had gone on, but he still had the brass neck to accept a finishers award. I know guys who have had bikes fail and been absolutely devastated - Bigfoot for one. He wouldn't have dreamed of swapping to another bike and falsely claiming a finish. I applaud the Committee for excluding Mr Alderson this year and hope, to set an example to others who think they're above the rules, 2008 was his last ever Scottish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 I agree entirely that as he abused the rules, falsely claimed a finisher's award and got caught he should not be allowed to ride the event again. As this thread petered out back in June before restarting with the recent post stating he got what he deserved by way of a refused entry, my point was, did he have his entry refused or was it that he didn't actually enter. There is no statement anywhere based on fact to confirm that his entry was refused. So I was just wondering, as the discussion has now turned to people expressing their pleasure that it serves him right he didn't get in - had he actually even sent an entry in??? Or are epeople just assuming. I absolutely hate cheating, hence my statement about not condoning what had gone on. There's nothing to reason with. Cheating of any kind winds me up badly but unfortunately it is common. From the rider that stops and hops in a no-stop trial and gains an advantage, those that know their way around the SSDT and miss out huge amounts of moors by riding their own route on the road, those who arrive bone dry with clean kit at a group of sections immediately after a filthy moor crossing in p***ing down rain as they've arrived with their bike in a van, those that alter sections (blatantly in some cases) and those that screw up a section and cajole or intimidate an observer into giving them a re-run which they then clean. The list is endless. This stuff goes on all the time and some riders are well known for it but repeatedly get away with it. They can live with it because that is the way they are, win at all costs and they are thick skinned enough to bear it - quite brazenly. How more brazen can you get than the Ferrari/Schumacher era when they cheated regularly under the public glare of millions of eyes and were repeatedly allowed to do it. The bigger the 'name' then generally, the more they get away with. As NZRalphy said, bikes still disappear into the factory 'facilities' at the SSDT to be sorted and fettled by the mechanics whilst the rider puts his feet up. When a friend of mine tried to bring a spanner to me in the parc ferme one year he was told no and to get out, I had to go and get the spanner myself which cost me valuable time whilst struggling to repair the bike on my own. 30 feet away some riders were handing their bikes over and getting them back with some new parts. Some didn't finish the week with the same engine they started with. No-one seemed bothered about all this but my mate couldn't even pass me a spanner. Who said cheats never prosper. Sadly they do and on a regular basis. Ah well, at least one got caught out. Still don't know whether he actually tried to enter this year though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big john Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 (edited) Woody, to be fair, I think you can take it that the prospective competitor did submit an entry, but you most certainly will not get that confirmed on here (or on the SSDT website either) by the event promoters. It is not the policy of any organiser, whether that be trials or any other form of motorsport to declare a list of entrants other than successful ones. The reason for this thread resurfacing some months later just goes to show how long 'bitter tastes' are left in ones' mouth, doesn't it? Big John Edited February 1, 2009 by Big John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 Well Big J & HL,I have always had a policy, that, on a monday morning if a soldier is in the sh-t from the weekend, he should be stood outside my office at 0800hrs ready to confess to the crime and take the punishment. If not and I find out secound hand, then I rip his/her head of and Sh-t down their neck from a great height and they go staight to the pockie (Jail) for some corrective training. I can make myself avalable when required. Aye The RSM I knew a RSM, nicest bloke you could wish to meet, nobody ever argued with him, even when he retired. I wonder why ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 Woody, to be fair, I think you can take it that the prospective competitor did submit an entry, but you most certainly will not get that confirmed on here (or on the SSDT website either) by the event promoters.It is not the policy of any organiser, whether that be trials or any other form of motorsport to declare a list of entrants other than successful ones. The reason for this thread resurfacing some months later just goes to show how long 'bitter tastes' are left in ones' mouth, doesn't it? Big John No, quite right, I wouldn't expect anything from the club as it's their business, but someone has told me today that an entry did go in so it would seem just desserts have been served. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 No, quite right, I wouldn't expect anything from the club as it's their business, but someone has told me today that an entry did go in so it would seem just desserts have been served. Cant believe the guy has the crass lack of judgement to even attempt an entry.. Jeez! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wherry Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Cant believe the guy has the crass lack of judgement to even attempt an entry.. Jeez! I can think of a suitable noun. Maybe he should think about buying a Chocolate Factory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asc Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 i'm starting to feel that everyone is having a bit of a go,this has being happening for years no one has moaned to officials,every body out there has had a little help off someone during the week,i for one know it's bloody hard being up there on your own so to speak,i'd have being in big trouble on more than one occasion if not for spectators or riders with vans,you'll always need something you can't carry,i fixed a water pump with areldite one year after smashing it on a rock,a little help i can't see as an issue.swopping bikes is wrong but he's definitly not the first and won't be the last,i for one have seen with my own eyes bikes dissapear in to vans to reappear suddenly sounding rattle free.i also think that one or two top riders may be under pressure from sponsors to get a finnish,if i failed to get round it would hardly make the news,not the case with some of the better riders,so it's hardly right to put blame solely on a rider.i also think that a second bike should be allowed to be used in some circumstances on a no award basis,it's a long way to go and be out with engine failure after a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapshot 3 Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 (edited) i'm starting to feel that everyone is having a bit of a go,this has being happening for years no one has moaned to officials,every body out there has had a little help off someone during the week,i for one know it's bloody hard being up there on your own so to speak,i'd have being in big trouble on more than one occasion if not for spectators or riders with vans,you'll always need something you can't carry,i fixed a water pump with areldite one year after smashing it on a rock,a little help i can't see as an issue.swopping bikes is wrong but he's definitly not the first and won't be the last,i for one have seen with my own eyes bikes dissapear in to vans to reappear suddenly sounding rattle free.i also think that one or two top riders may be under pressure from sponsors to get a finnish,if i failed to get round it would hardly make the news,not the case with some of the better riders,so it's hardly right to put blame solely on a rider.i also think that a second bike should be allowed to be used in some circumstances on a no award basis,it's a long way to go and be out with engine failure after a day. Can I suggest maybe you read some of this thread again a bit more closely. No-one is obejcting to people doing the self help stuff like you suggest and I suspect for years there have been moans and groans to various Stewards and officials about some of the shenanigans that have happened over the years however, the rider in question is an agents rider and an award winner over many years. What's got people's backs up is that it's been so blatant and that even though caught and shamed he stood his ground and refused to confess, accepted his awards and did others out of their rightful positions and awards. My previous comment on this topic: Like every sport cheating's been going on forever but if you condone or try to reason why then all you do is a: completely disrespect the event the organisers have put together, b: disrespect your fellow competitors and c: disrespect the sport. If you can live with yourself through that then good luck to you, hope you get caught, hope it's public and sincerely hope you never get near the sport again. The guy in question should never get an entry to the trial again and maybe the riders, his peers should shame him into quitting but after what's happened so far I don't think he has any shame. Said individual got caught out, he has no entry this year and for sticking the proverbial two fingers up at the organisers I hope his entry "get's lost in the post" every year, same goes for anyone else caught. He couldn't have done this alone so some others out there need to have a good look at themselves but he chose to do it, someone with a bit of honour and respect would have retired, end of. Ultimately he chose to cheat It's his responsibility Edited February 2, 2009 by Slapshot 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big john Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Right, for starters, I actually like the bloke in question, I respect him as being a good trials rider, but I completely disagree with what he did at last years' SSDT. I know for a fact that he was caught fair and square and I was shocked that he didn't do the right thing by either retiring himself or at least asking that his name be dropped from the awards listings. As for the point that this type of thing (swapping bikes etc) has been going on for years, I know that is the case, but if you are caught cheating, best thing is to quietly retreat and apologise. That way you can live to have a go another day, so to speak! But accepting an award, knowing full well that you have been 'rumbled' well that's just dumb, aint it? Big John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamjayzee Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 If anyone's ever read any of my comments on observers and sports officials, they'll know that I am a defender of fair play. With any sport, the rules are there to be played within and sometimes that boundary is a little 'flexible'. However, when it is deemed that the line has been crossed, there should be no argument. This is a classic example; it doesn't matter what has gone before or who has got away with what; you get caught, it's game over, take your punishment. The thing about this incident is it is so clear cut. Has anyone had a word in Mr Alderson's shell-like and suggested that unless he wants to take up gardening, he ought make some reparations? I'm sure he's no dummy, but there must be members of every club in Britain viewing this website and a kangeroo court could make his trials life incredibly difficult. There is little room for defence here, but I don't like trial by media/ web forum! It would be a very good thing for the sport if someone could put a gentle arm around this lost sheep and guide him back to the flock with some good advice and a well thought out apology. Surely someone on here is in this position? Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 It would be a very good thing for the sport if someone could put a gentle arm around this lost sheep and guide him back to the flock with some good advice and a well thought out apology. He's not a lost sheep. He's deluded. That was proven by the fact that EVERYBODY in Fort William for the SSDT last year knew that Phil Alderson had switched bikes then switched back. It was the talk of the town - literally. The fact he did that knowing it was common knowledge and then had the audacity to accept a finishers award is beyond contempt in the eyes of every genuine rider and person who gives up their time for this event. He's more than capable of finishing year after year. Okay he had a bad one. It can happen to anybody - like it did to Dougie in the Scott last year, but you just accept it and move on. It's not Trial by online jury, it's Trial by his peers - his fellow riders and he deserves everything he gets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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