Oil Recommendation From Motul

[nicos]

this might be of interest to you,

there's alot of us wondering so i got my mate who is the motul dealer here to email motul directly.

his reply:

Ref. the Gas Gas 280 TXT 2011 gearbox oil, you can use with confidence our Transoil Expert 10W40.

NB: when it states 1999- on our online tool, it means the recommendation has changed since.

[nicos]

there's a whole lot of info about this oil in the email but i can't include it here for some reason.

you can read about it on their website if you want.

[sting32]

Nicos,

Oil and usage (SPECIFICALLY FOR Gas Gas, since this is the SUB-FORUM we're in) and everything has been beat to death on this forum, and at least 3 other forums (english speaking ones I visit daily). What worked for my buddy in is Sherco, didnt work for him in his Gas Gas, a few years ago, so it is all about what brand and what model, I guess. I wouldn't put the same oils into my RM 250, or the Kawasaki 200 dirt bike either. totally different duty they do to the engines built for that purpose.

The oil industry is going to convince you that their oil is the best for you, that is how they make money.

Gas Gas says use 5w/30 engine oil. TRials competition riders, had been using Automatic Transmission fluid for nearly a decade and even in the older engines, however it was different brands and what not.

FWIW, the only questionable item of note that has been documented (that I have found) was the that the usage of General Motors branded, AUTO TRAk - 2, has been DISCOURAGED, or warned to no longer use it apparently, and agreeable I guess

because I dont know anyone that can disprove the concerns noted by Gas Gas UK.

I myself and my family, have used ATF, Type f, I have used dextron 2 and 3, I really loved and have used GM auto trak 2, for 4 or five years, in 8 different bikes, I DONT ANYMORE. I dont believe I ever had the "Clutch FIber disk swelling problem" they report to have. I have, for 3 years now, since been convinced to run other oils. I use a 5/w30 semi synthetic engine oil.

If you are trying to MOTOCROSS or DRAG RACE a trials bike, you probably better come up with something besides "MFG recommendations" for oil to protect your engine.

The suitability of any oil, is determined by how you use the bike, other wise known as a DUTY cycle. We ride "TRIALS" events or PRACTICE TRIALS events, which typically means for one full day on sunday, my Raga will idle for 80% of those 5 hours, will rev up to half the capasity so I guess maybe 4000 RPMS, for maybe 32 times, for a grand total of 5 minutes, that is unless I fall off the bike and the throttle gets stuck on at some point. The PRO riders are harder on the engines, they're the ones that seem to provide feedback down through support, for MFG's, at least the importers of our bikes. that is how we find out that everyone was using ATF way back when. there wasn't a problem, most problems are because neglected oils, IMHO.

So for all of us that ride trials on these bikes, Oil Cleanliness, is more critical than brand or weight. The 5w/30 vs ATF, vs Semi-synthetic has more to do with how I "tune" how the clutch acts and feels to what I have become very picky about. We change the oil every 10-15 hours of "ride time" that means I can practice a few times, but before my sunday events, I change my oil. So it behoves you to get inexpensive and readily available good reputable brand oil, so that you can change it often and not go broke. GM's autotrack was like 8 bucks or more a quart, if you ordered it a case at a time. what I run now is less than half that, I believe.

Hope this helps you.

EDIT: Make sure you understand they SUGGEST that you dont use GM AUTOTRAK2. In case I was unclear.

BTW, I cant get my Yamalube in 5w/30 anymore (though I still have one quart at my shop). I use 0w/30 yamalube. Some southern USA people say Yamaha doesn't carry it, as it is for colder (snow mobile) engines? I wouldnt know, I know I get it when I want some, because my buddy carries it at his Yamaha shop, he likes it in his Gas Gas too, which helps availability. Also I would like to explain where I come up with the thinking I have...

I have a teenager that is not my son, that I just started to teach in this sport of trials. So, that is one of the things I try to think about, The Low $ funding of his pursuit, he works after school, and all but still, motorcycling without parental involvement when not fully employed (or not) seems to take a few bucks... that is why our main concern is that he uses "what is inexpensive and CONVENIENT for him to get. Right now of course I buy a case so he can buy a quart from me as long as I have one. Others newbies might be in the same boat. takes a couple of years worth of Quarter and Dollars (apposed to nickel dime) to get you supplies up, unless again you already have this stuff, or have money.

whatever bike you buy, you need access or own the flywheel puller, spare clutch and brake levers, Dot5 dot4 and or mineral oil (I replace mineral oil in clutch with dot5 myself. plenty of 2 stroke mix, race fuel, boots helmet gloves, ramp or trailer....

take care

Edited February 7, 2013 by sting32

[nicos]

thanks for the info!

like you,my raga sees very similar use,so i will go with what you recommend.

[coop650]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0IAIDUZafY

[sting32]

thanks for the info!

like you,my raga sees very similar use,so i will go with what you recommend.

What you will NEED to do, is try a few. The 0w/30 yamalube is where i have ended up at, after trying many different brands and flavors of oils, over several years now again (for PRO model bikes, since 2005 or so, when I got my first 04 Pro). I started out with ATF, we kept a lot of "technically it is ATF Type F" on the farm, because Case/IH tractors used it for transmission/hydraulics, so I used it. Then I got told to try this, rode many a friends' bikes, listened, and tried what they like, since we compete with or against each other we shared things. Everything I tried after I liked how the clutch acted, came down to I didnt want to have to order from UK, and wait 1 month or whatever. I also edit my previous post.

[dbell]

Sting32 -

I have the same bike as you, 2011 Raga 300. How would you compare the feel of the 0w/30 yamalube to straight ATF type F?

I started with ATF type F on the Raga and the clutch action was very progressive when the bike was brand new, in fact too progressive for my liking. Over the first few months the clutch action got less progressive and settled into a much quicker bite.

About 6 months ago I tested some Valvoline 0w20 synthetic. The first oil change returned about the half of the progressiveness of the new clutch and for me was just about perfect. The second oil change brought back all of the original progressiveness, perhaps even more than original. I was shocked by what a difference the oil made to the clutch action and that the change occurred over multiple oil changes.

With a 50/50 mixture of the ATF and the 0w20 oil the clutch stayed very progressive. Still too much for me.

I cut the percentage of 0w20 synthetic oil down to about 10% to 20% to get the clutch feel I like.

What is interesting to me was that changing to a different oil caused a clutch feel change that evolved over time and over multiple oil changes. I am curious if others have experienced this type of evolving clutch feel when they switch oils.

Edit: I just watched Jim's video above. Found it interesting that he said Synth Oils tended to make the clutch sticky and draggy. My synth oil experience was just the opposite as described allowed more slip and progression.

Edited February 8, 2013 by dbell

[sting32]

dbell,

I have posted this before and probably more than once... either here, or at thumpertalk, or ADVrider. I didnt go find it, Ill repost it from memory/knowledge.

1st off lets agree with some terminology, as I talk about this from my experiences over the past 11-12 years at least.

In my earlier days, of riding a 1999 gasgas321, I got online at the "previously used before -trials central- web forums (trials action) that is gone... I found out that using (please pardon the amounts could be off) 450cc' of ATF instead of the 500cc of whatever came in the bike at factory, on that engine, seems to help with the way the clutches tried to keep the bike moving when clutch pulled. I bought the 99 in 2000 or 2001, used of course. That is what I call "Dragging"

Then in late 05, Dad got our own 1st Pro engined 04 300 PRO. a few short months later I made a deal on a good used one, from one of Kansas at the time up and coming trials riders. as he took all of his trick parts off it, which I agreed to, he explained a bunch of things that our importer and I am sure other USA National's riders had share with him. One was using about 50cc less oil in the trans, at the time Jake was using "Rock Oil" that I dont have a clue where to get it, it was all that was left from case or 2 he'd acquired. I liked it. It was I believe a full synthetic transmission oil, which not much later we were buying GM's Auto trak because easier to find, though expensive.

To me, this made the clutch so you could feather the clutch a helluva lot more than with std ATF, which grabbed about like the Montesa's do. IT was NOT HUGE change, but significant enough to ME, that I kept with this oil type. I still believe that PRO level riders like the quick grabbing instant clutch in gear of ATF, to jump big stuff, without losing power to clutch that slips a little at first as you let go of the lever... I am guessing that from comments I have heard, not that I ever feel like the clutch slips when you let go, but I dont EVER rev the engine to 7THOUSAND RPMS and jump up a 15 foot cliff either.

So, I might be calling it wrong, but the oil I like, makes the clutch in my mind, more progressive. Like a dimmer switch effect compared to a regular light switch.

I like that, when I need to feather the clutch for about 5 milimeters of motion, at the point where my finger handles the lever, I have anywhere from 10% clutch engagement, to full engagement, meaning the rear wheel has to slip if anything gives or clutch out all the way... You use this in tight as hell turning sections, unless your a hopper I guess. I am barely a hopper, I am a damn good turner, ask anyone that knows me, then I can usually hop one time with rear if I need to. I get tired easily so saving energy is key.

Maybe everyone else thinks Progressive means it is the other way?

I use 0w/30 thanks to friends that experiment more than I do, and because YAMALUBE doesn't make the 5w/30 I used FIRST, after having to abandon the GM AUTOTRAK 2 stuff we were using. I really like it, but I dont have mountains to ride, just hills here in KS, I never ever felt it slip, I am very PICKY and careful adjusting my clutch, and I have those S-3 or Jitsie adjusters on my clutch to fine tune as it warms up riding, never turn it more than 1/4 turn, but I have turned it 3 times at our last trials during that day on the loop. things have to happen with my finger and this adjusts where the clutch does what it does reach wise on my finger. Some people like my son and other newer riders just adjust themselves to the clutch. might be better, when my clutch messed up, my day is ruined (let the resivior get dry once last year) where my son probably just complain but keep going, if you know what I mean.

OK, I better add this. You ASK "I have the same bike as you, 2011 Raga 300. How would you compare the feel of the 0w/30 yamalube to straight ATF type F?" I feel like you and I probably agree if our teminology is the same, the ATF the clutch is closer to a light switch, with this Yamalube I use, I have 5 or more millimeters of different and varying clutch grab or bite, and yeah I cant really say it, been long dang time since I used ATF, but I think it lets go of the clutch (less drag) when you pull it in. Again depending on riding ability, it might mean less, to me though, I dont like ATF, but I could make myself get used to it again if I had to. A tiny bit of less grabby can mean more traction a lot of the time, as the tire's on something just waiting to spin/slip off? But just means you have to be more accurate with clutch with ATF, really.

DISCLAIMER to anyone else reading this thread. Since I dont have my oil can here that I have written exactly how man CC's of oil I do USE religiously, and because I wrote it down I don't try to remember it. SO, PLEASE ask someone for actual values, don't use what I said. All I can recall is it was like 50cc's less than manuals state?

Edited February 8, 2013 by sting32

[dbell]

Thanks for the reply Sting. Yes we agree on terminology. My synth oil addition to the ATF slows the clutch bite and allows a more progressive clutch feel, better traction control in tough situations and generaly more clutch lever motion to change the power level to the ground. I am bit picky on the clutch settings as well so I may have to invest in some of those on the fly clutch lever adjusters as multiple adjustments with the allen wrench and lock nut can get annoying.