Skip to content
View in the app

A better way to browse. Learn more.

Trials Central

A full-screen app on your home screen with push notifications, badges and more.

To install this app on iOS and iPadOS
  1. Tap the Share icon in Safari
  2. Scroll the menu and tap Add to Home Screen.
  3. Tap Add in the top-right corner.
To install this app on Android
  1. Tap the 3-dot menu (⋮) in the top-right corner of the browser.
  2. Tap Add to Home screen or Install app.
  3. Confirm by tapping Install.

Better Electrical Diagnosis

Featured Replies

post-11028-0-51809900-1411772452_thumb.jpg

TC would not allow the file type for this image to be loaded so I photographed it whilst I had my camera handy.

It shows the waveform of a 4 stroke electronic ignition spark.

The blue line comes in from the left, where it drops is the start of coil charging, this lasts about 3 mS. Then there is about a 1mS squiggle and step as the coil current is switched to fire it. The voltage the rises suddenly to about 38 kV for about 1 mS then drops again. The very high spike at about 24.56 mS is the voltage "pressure" building up before the spark jumps the plug gap and gives the burn time. This 1 mS at 38 kV is the ignition spark burn. The 4 oscillations after it drops is called coil bounce and indicates the coil is in good order.

This type of analysis is quick and easy and a lot better than swapping parts.

For example if there were no charging section it probably means a CDI fault, if there is no switching step it could be CDI or trigger coil.

This waveform is using a single sensor on the HT lead. This system is a 4 channel system and can give 4 traces at once. Had I put sensors on CI output to coil, Ignition source coil and trigger coil as well as HT I could have found the exact area of the fault with a quick spin of the engine.

post-11028-0-67892000-1411772383_thumb.jpg

Edited by dadof2

So simple a caveman can do it!

Try getting some patterns on a few trials bikes, primary side between mag and cdi, cdi to coil and such, then secondary.

Problem on some with integrated cdi/coil though.

Quite honestly, at least in my end of the auto trade, we have not tought/used a scope for much other than crank/ cam input to the computer for decades now whth coil on plug things and such, a noid light will do, oh well.

  • Author

A noid light though useful only tells you if there is a burst of electrical activity of some sort. With the 4 channel scope you can measure for example the current and voltage to 2 injectors at the same time, the slightest discrepancy between the to is clearly visible but a noid check would not show this.

With the scope I have a coil on plug sensor can be used for COP systems.

Same thing with a HT coil, noid will show its OK and the coil may perform properly when engine is revved in garage. Put a scope on and its a fair bet you will see the defect that only intermittently manifests itself under sustained load.

Integrated HT coil / CDI does not make much difference, I would just put sensors on coil secondary, stator source coil and stator signal coil.

It is very simple to use, the only difficulty is interpreting if there is a fault when you get an unfamiliar abnormality on the waveform.

When you read the electrical problems people post on TC it would make diagnosis far easier if manufacturers fitted a scope socket, and a list of what you should see when all is well.

The modern PC based oscilloscopes are a long way from the first automotive cathode tube type scopes.

Checking CPS, ABS wheel sensors and ignition is probably most common scope use. My kit cost not far short of £2k, but there are compact combined diagnostic code readers and scopes for less than £130 Which can do pretty well all the tests needed on trials bikes.

When I get time I will see about posting some waveforms off trials bikes.

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

Account

Navigation

Search

Search

Configure browser push notifications

Chrome (Android)
  1. Tap the lock icon next to the address bar.
  2. Tap Permissions → Notifications.
  3. Adjust your preference.
Chrome (Desktop)
  1. Click the padlock icon in the address bar.
  2. Select Site settings.
  3. Find Notifications and adjust your preference.