December 17, 201411 yr Here in the US Nationals a Stop with Foot Down = 1. To me this is a 5. No balance no motion = 5 I challenge anyone to explain why this is not a five. Please someone defend this rule. Under stop allowed rules, 'No motion' is allowed and incurs no penalty, this is the whole basis of stop allowed rules as opposed to No stop. The only failures (5's) whilst stopped and footing are when (1) only one hand is on the bars (2) engine is stopped Both of which deem you to have lost control of the bike whilst footing, which is basically 2 different faults occurring at the same time and I'd guess that is how they arrived at them being failures. All other failures are obvious, if you have left the course, go in the wrong direction, are not astride the bike or cheat Under stop allowed stop + dab cannot be classed as a failure because there is only one fault occurring and not two different faults. To do so would not be very sportsmen like as it would go against the basis of how the rules were written in the first place. One could say that the introduction of stop allowed was not very 'Sporting' as it undervalued the athletic performance of the riders.
December 17, 201411 yr This motor not running one is new on me. When did that come in and what possible relevance does it have? If you can restart the motor (and I'm sure we've all bump started a motor in a section at some time) feet up by kick either whilst moving or stationary (depending what "stop" rules are used) then where's the problem? I've threed out of a section before now when the motor stalled just short of the cards - what's the difference between that and the same to maintain way under wheelspin? Or the motor fluffs at the top of that last drop to the ends cards which you were going to ride with the clutch in anyway - would the observer even know?
December 17, 201411 yr Good points. To encourage entry level riders (kids/novice) local club trials we should only count dabs, out of bounds and falls. But, for US National Championship events the level of riding is higher and the standard should be higher. Yes that could work at a national where there is a team of observers at each section. But at a national the sections are timed so wouldn't reducing the allotted time to ride a section have nearly the same effect without requiring the observer to make a judgment call as to whether the rider stopped or not? I once heard a story of a rider who was defending himself from a failure to stop at a stop sign charge. In court he tossed an inflated balloon up in the air and let it fall back down. He then asked the judge if he could see the balloon stop before it began descending. The judge decided that it wasn't possible to identify the stop that had to be occurring between the ascent and the descent. As I I'm sure you know at a given national event there might be 100 entrants but only 7 or 8 Champ class riders. The event wouldn't happen without the lower classes, so they are an important consideration.
December 18, 201411 yr I can envision spectacular climbs in this event. Climbs that will pucker your bunghole. If they are landed, there may be need to foot and regain your composure before the next tickler without fivin out.
December 18, 201411 yr I can envision spectacular climbs in this event. Climbs that will pucker your bunghole. If they are landed, there may be need to foot and regain your composure before the next tickler without fivin out. It was called balancing the bike. One other reason they changed the rules. The top riders did this all day long, also they would hop backwards all the way to the start. They removed the backing up rule as it took too much time. The top guys would maintain balance all day long and the bikes were crap compared to now.
December 18, 201411 yr It was called balancing the bike. One other reason they changed the rules. The top riders did this all day long, also they would hop backwards all the way to the start. They removed the backing up rule as it took too much time. The top guys would maintain balance all day long and the bikes were crap compared to now. I get the jist of being a top rider and put up or shut up. I was kinda hoping this would trickle down to club so one didn't have to be close to pro to have a competitive score so advancement would not be so intimidating.
December 18, 201411 yr When I learned TRIALS the CONTROLLED rollback was a feat I worked hard at to master ! (slightly pre Bernie days )It was a way to make a to tight of a turn where you had no room to make a floater ... make a 3 point turn ... But when I got back into trials around 2005 , I learned after riding what I thought was a clean ride, I had 5v'd the section due to rollling backwards ... I didn't hop backwards (beyond my skill set !) I bounced my front tire off something and rolled back 2 or 3 feet and then tightened my turn and exited clean ... Twinshocked may remember my expressions after the ride , " cause I was thinking in the rules I grew up on ... But his dad was observing the section , and even though the few spectators there applauded the ride (really rare), I took my 5 and moved on ... BUT STOP WITH A FOOT DOWN IS A 5 !!!!!! PERIOD ! Glenn
December 18, 201411 yr During the 90's a dab while stopped was a 5. It was enforced like today's no-stop rule and observers let you stop for up to 3 seconds if you made an effort to look like you are not stopped. Observers tended to be lenient about stopping and going backwards just like today. They don't want to give a 5 if you are using all your might to push yourself over that log even though you are not moving forward and bouncing backwards. There were a few observers who were strict about stopping with your foot down and that's when the arguing started. Riders now don't like no stop because of the conflicts with observers it causes and inconsistencies in scoring. The same thing happened with stopped+dab=5. That said, it make me cringe when I see a rider who is too lazy to walk the section cruise into it and at the first split takes a 30 second dab, chats with the observer about what line to take, and rides out with a one.
December 19, 201411 yr Isn't the whole point about RIDING the section ? not parking and deciding what to do ? Walk the section , make a game plan and give it your best shot ! That's what the sport is about . Be honest to yourself ............................... ! Glenn
December 19, 201411 yr Micael t, when I ask for someone to "defend it" I am asking for someone to tell me why in sporting terms why Stop Dab is only one point. I have the opposite view so I am trying to understand the other side. When I say in "Sporting Terms" I mean from judging the athletic performance of a rider in a given section. By the way congrats on getting Trials going up in Nova Scotia. It couldn't have been easy. I am not asking you to change anything. Do what ever works for you and just keep on riding. I am talking about the rules for US Nationals. Rules evolve in all sports and governing bodies must try and adapt to keep their sport current and fair. So far no one offered a good defense for Stop Dab = only 1 OK, I will tell you! Because here in the good old USA, we are not running NO STOP rules! The US National riders have not asked for that to happen! The US National riders are comprised of a handful of top riders(like WTC), along with a great support class in age groups and ability! If they do not have an issue with it then neither should you! Go ride some of the events if you are concerned about it, as they have a twinshock class now! And if it bothers you that badly, just go run your wizzer in that other pitiful group that runs no stop events! In Nationals, they are on a timer! If they wish to use that time as they like, that is up to them!
December 21, 201411 yr My old ass can stop wherever it wants, and dab wherever it wants without some idiot sayng I did both at the same time! Life is good!
December 21, 201411 yr I think this whole thread explains why the yanks have not had a decent trials rider since Bernie shriber,..... Trials is not stopping, and not putting you feet down..
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