... just noticed lately when the battery is charging it'll get to the last two bars and start blinking.
If I shut the battery off and turn it back on it'll show a full charge.
Taken literally, this suggests that you have the battery turned ON while charging. Not sure that is a recommended state, or that the indicator should be trusted while doing do.
I have a 2021 ePure Race and made the switch from Magura to Domino. My old Magura seemed to be developing a bit of a glitchy, dead, just off the totally closed position. In hindsight, the issue would probably have been fixed by doing a controller reset.
With all the said, to answer your questions:
Was it easy to install? If you go aftermarket, you will need to acquire the correct connector, and wire it yourself. Unless, you don't mind chopping off the end of your old throttle, and using it.
Any noticeable difference? The primary difference is that the Magura has a considerable stronger return spring. Seems to make the task of holding a fixed throttle position a bit easier, as the stronger spring is pushing back, providing a bit more resistance.
Interesting side note: The aftermarket Domino comes with a set of grips that are of a larger outer diameter than a traditional trials grip. If you have a larger hand, it makes things a bit more comfortable. That, and the larger diameter makes for a bit smoother throttle input. Sort of like the difference between a black and white throttle tube. The same degree of throttle turn produces less throttle input.
I swapped mine thinking the Magura was failing. Probably wasn't. Is the cost worthwhile, simply for the sake of change? I don't think so. A bit smoother, and more precise but the difference between to two is marginal, from my perspective.
Except with "tickover" mode, available on some models, all power to the motor should be off when the throttle is fully closed. In other words, the bike will not pull forward, but it will certainly roll freely. There is no meaningful motor resistance to prevent it from doing so. If you have a FRB or PRB (fixed regenerative braking and progressive regenerative braking) button equipped, that can provide some, when depressed.
In short, it is normal for braking to be required on any sort of downslope.
Regarding the recharge, I presume that you are asking whether you can plug your Electric Motion provided charger into the public charge point? If the plug socket available at the recharge station provided the same voltage and amperage as the wall plug you normally plug into, then no problem.
I believe it is a hall effect sensor type device but it has a spring loaded switch that is triggered when pushing the throttle closed. On that bike, it is used to cancel cruise control but it would seem ideal to trigger regenerative braking on the EM bikes. Is anything like that available? The Domino throttle does have an unused switch but it may be to ensure no no movement due to electronic noise with throttle closed. Maybe like a kill switch. It is not clear to me.
Both the old Magura, and the new Domino, throttle are 0-5k Ohm potentiometer units. No Hall Effect on these.
I just ordered, and received, a Domino throttle (not from EM) and I am waiting on the necessary connectors to arrive, before I install it. I am going to use it to replace the Magura on my 2021 Race.
The Domino does have two extra wires for the micro switch. If you get the Domino from EM themselves, I have not clue what, if anything, they are doing with the micro switch. To your point, I have likewise considered tying the micro-switch into the FRB connector, such that throttle closed would trigger regenerative braking. However, not that I have the throttle in hand, there is no play, or gap, between throttle off and switch closed. In the end, I don't think that using it for regenerative braking would be wise. When negotiating obstacles in trials, crossing logs, climbing hills, etc. that last thing you would want is the sudden trigger of extreme braking when you closed the throttle. It would be great if the transition from throttle closed, to micro-switch closed, had a minor mechanical stop. In other words, you would have to intentionally trigger it by closing the throttle a bit further than natural stop. But alas, that is not the case.
I have found a handlebar mounted thumb button that I think will do the trick. When mounted in reverse, the offset of the design should place the button in a position that your clutch finger can easily reach and press it. To me, that seems like the most natural way to trigger regenerative braking. Certainly not a thumb button, or the seemingly awkward second lever, above the clutch, the EM is using.
I have not ridden a 2022, with traction control, so I can't speak to that aspect of your question. However, I do have a 2021 "Race" with a clutch. Having ridden the bike for a little over a year, I can say that there is little to no reason to have the clutch, unless you are a very advanced rider. Unless you have need to rev the motor to high RPM, before a sudden clutch release, to leap up onto a rock, etc. then you don't need it. In fact, for tight and technical sections, full-lock turns, etc. the advantage is the fact that you don't use the clutch. It demands that you develop a greater level of throttle control, but the ability to ride the bike using throttle alone is amazing.
So, unless you a a high-level, accomplished, trials rider, it is a safe bet you would be happy going with a lower spec model sans clutch, traction control, tickover, etc.
I suppose that you could, but I imagine it would be VERY cost prohibitive. Lots of parts involved.
With that said, as good as the clutch is, I hardly ever use it. As you develop greater throttle (rheostat) control, you can actually ride the technical stuff more precisely, and smoothly, by avoiding the added complication of trying to modulate a clutch. The motor will turn as slow as you want.
The throttle is electronic. It is connected by electrical wiring. Nice that you don't have a cable to lubricate, or that can get into a bind. As far as the controller, I can't say. No indication that the user can reprogram. Just pick from the various maps built in from the factory.
I have a 2021, which is different, so can’t say for sure. I believe that they moved the map switch, and indicator light, to its own housing on the left side of the handlebars. I believe that is what you are looking at.
Would this be too much bike for a trials rookie like me and what I want to do with it? Should I be looking at something one level down?
It certainly would not be "too much bike". The map switch allows you to change between 125, 250, and 300 mode. You can dial the power as you see fit. With that said, and as strange as it sounds, you might consider the less expensive model that comes without the clutch. The more proficient that I get on the bike, the less I need the clutch. For upper class riders, that need to rev high prior to popping the clutch for a huge leap, the clutch is great. For lower class folks that are simply negotiating turns in a section, it is really unnecessary.
Riding the Electric Motion well requires a deft throttle hand. With a gas bike, you are always balancing clutch slip against throttle input. Removing clutch from the equation makes you a MUCH smoother rider. However, that transfers full responsibility to your throttle control. Consider that you have full torque from zero RPM and the slightest blip of the throttle produces immediate results. Once your mind adapts to unlearning old habits and developing new ones, it is magical what you can do. You want to stop forward motion? Just close the throttle! Engine won't die. You can move along a 1/4 RPM if you like.
Don't want to talk you out of a clutch, as I like having mine for backup habits. However, just want you to know that it is not necessary for riding trials, and probably less so for your intended purpose.
You have gone through the obvious steps. Trying to think outside the box, since you said top of the stroke, what about chain tension? Adjusted too tight and making noise sometimes? Something in the chain tensioner making noise as it move through its range?
Mike at TryalsShop said his webmaster has an EM and used the Zeta bar ends but the size appeared identical to the Jitsies so I am confused. Will I need to drill out my bars or..?
That would be me. The ZETA bar ends come with two different size inserts, in the package.
No drilling of the bars required, with the correct set of inserts. (The set to the right, running vertically.)
Those that have gone petrol to electric, will you stay on electric or are you looking to go back to petrol?
It does take more than a little acclimation time. To me, considerably more than when switching from 2-stroke to 4-stroke. It requires a deft throttle hand, for sure. I can't totally agree with the comment on difficulty regaining traction once the tire slips. Provided you don't have, or use, the tickover mode (counter-productive in my opinion), it is as simple at closing the throttle. Then SLOWLY reapply. The bike performs incredibly well when you learn to stay off the clutch and ride with throttle only. Totally eliminates a variable that can effect (jar) smooth traction management.
Bike maintenance, or lack thereof, is brilliant. As is the absence of kickstarting, waiting for engine warm-up, hot having a hot engine or exhaust, etc. Once you get beyond the missing petrol engine noise, the bike makes its own sounds. Things that you acclimate to and learn to hear instead. The whir of the clutch gears, tires on the dirt, chain, etc. No desire to return to petrol, whatsoever!
I've just bought a slightly secondhand Epure Race. First ride yesterday and I absolutely loved it. It's the Mutt's nuts, the dog's danglies, the canine's gonads, and every other euphemism you can think of.
I'm now just starting on working through everything, cleaning, adjusting and learning, so I have a couple of questions to start off with:
Does anyone have a clever way of refitting the chain tensioner? It came off with a mighty ping and looks like it will be a swine to get back on.
Where is the oil drain plug and level window? So far I've only found the filler.
Thanks.
I attached a copy of the user manual for you, in case you don't have one.
I would also like to hear thoughts on the this: What if regen came on whenever the throttle is shut off?
On the surface, sounds good, when you only think of heading down hills. In practice, throttle closure occurs in too many different situations other than downhill.
With a gas engine, rolling off the throttle is followed by continued flywheel engine inertia. So, the Electric Motion, as it stands, is already a bit of a shock to new riders as rolling off the throttle does not have that same inertia, and forward motion ceases much faster. If you add regenerative braking to the throttle action, that would even be more severe.
Think about heading uphill on a gas engine bike. You always roll off a bit and let flywheel inertia carry you over the crest. With a stock Electric Motion, you quickly learn that you better not do that. Even worse if you tied regen braking to throttle closure.
On a downhill run a gas engine provides engine braking, as the rear wheel tries to drive the engine at a faster RPM than it wants to go. In other situations, the gas engine at is still providing a bit of forward momentum while at idle. That characteristic is what the new "tickover" feature on the 2022 EM is trying to imitate. What you are suggesting is the opposite in that closing the throttle would not only stop producing power altogether, but even start resisting forward motion. I don't think that in the end it would be a desired characteristic.
If regen braking were to be linked to any trigger other than its own separate switch, it might work by linking to the front brake lever. It may be a total bust, but would be an interesting experiment. The same type of front brake switch that triggers a brake light could be used to trigger regen. Sounds plausible that if you want the front brake on you might want the rear wheel to experience regen drag as well.
Alternatively, it might well work if the switch was on the rear brake peddle. If it were setup such that the peddle in its full up position closed the switch and turned off regen, the the very moment you pressed the peddle down (even before starting to engage the rear brake) the regen would kick in. Further pressing down would add the physical brake to the regen.
In the picture I've circled a red wire that is on the +50V battery terminal in yellow. If I traced it correctly this wire runs to the LCD display (and I want to believe I traced it correctly because it isn't uncommon for an LCD to need more than +5V logic supply.
I am a bit taken back by them taking those power taps ahead of the fuse. Running 50v from there, all the way back to the LCD, before stepping down just doesn't sound wise, if that is the case.
Given you felt the shock on the clutch side, I would look closely at the kill switch lanyard button mounted right next door. In addition to the normal kill switch functionality, it lights up as well. No clue what type of power they are sending up to it for that. Should be minimal, but it is still a current path. Wet lanyard around your wrist is a conduction path, as well.
The more I do with this bike the less interest I have in petrol powered bikes. This electric stuff certainly has a learning curve, but it seems so much more simple. Is it a siren's song?
If so, then I am singing the same song! Technology yes, but such a drastic reduction in moving parts makes for elegant simplicity. In your search for the issue, I presume that you removed the orange mesh and checked all the cable connections? Time to break out the multi-meter and go to town!
If I got the right parts, JST Type Automotive Connectors 02T-JWPF-VSLE-S and 02R-JWPF-VSLE-S 2 Pin Waterproof Connectors Male and Female Butt Plugs, from Amazon are the right size to plug into the connectors under the top panel. These are assemble yourself connectors so I can't recommend for people who haven't done a lot of electronics assembly. My plan is to find a pushbutton switch in my spare parts pile and wire up the regen braking.
Really cool that you came up with the connectors. Thanks! I have attached a pic I grabbed from one of John's (Ka Uila Motors) YouTube videos. Look below his thumb and you will see a mini-lever style trigger-switch that he is using for his region braking. He is selling the whole setup, plug-n-play ready as an alternative to a push button. To me, that is the solution that makes the most sense. Being skilled in electronics, I want to save the cost by assembling my own. However, so far, all of my search efforts to find a trigger-switch like that have turned up nothing. Danged if I can find one!
Is anyone using S3 Bar Ends on a EPure? I'm trying to figure out which model bar ends to get. #5 or TOO? I guess the question is does the EPure have a closed or open throttle tube?
The throttle tube on the EM is open. I went with these orange ones from ZETA, to compliment the bike colors. Top quality kit.
Really at a loss on this one, as my stand is not even slightly problematic. The bike leans well to the right. In the past, I have had bikes that you dare not hang you helmet on the side opposite the kickstand, for fear of tipping it over! However, as you can see in the photo, not at all an issue. I really wonder what is causing owners to have different experiences. Something not consistent, for sure.
I'm pretty much the opposite of impressed with the EM importer here in the US. Curt/short answers, and apparently no time for customers. Hell, when I received my EM, all the oil had leaked out of the "transmission". So, I have that going for me. And when I asked about the really really long kickstand... the answer was that I must be crazy that my bike doesn't stand up.
Finally, the bike makes a horrific "clunk" whenever I come off an obstacle, still can't figure out what it is.
Unfortunate that your impression wasn't a positive one. I have had numerous exchanges with the owner, and his staff, over the past couple of years, and have always been well pleased. Have you reached out to your local EM dealer, in California? Likely they would have a bit more time to help you with any issues, than the owner of a multi-brand bike importing company does.
My kickstand length is perfectly fine, and works just like the high-end add ons I have put on my other bike brands. Any chance yours has become bent at the mounting point?
On your "clunk", can you tell if it is front versus rear? Maybe associated with your kickstand issue? 🤔
Battery question
in EM (Electric Motion)
Posted
Taken literally, this suggests that you have the battery turned ON while charging. Not sure that is a recommended state, or that the indicator should be trusted while doing do.