Assuming that the wheels that you have are the more common, small hub type (as opposed to the large mk1 hub wheels) I know that he stored all the dimensions and specifications for the spokes, and I am sure that he would be very happy to supply the correct spokes, or to rebuild the wheels.
There is always going to be some delay between build and first registration, the length of which could be weeks, months or even years depending on a whole load of possible scenarios. It stands to reason therefore that a registration number is no precise measure of build date.
I also agree that it is possible that one statement of information can be taken, and repeated often enough, so as to become accepted as gospel.
To make life considerably easier for anyone wanting to register an early 247, the ideal would be to have an agreed list of frame numbers vs. build dates that the VMCC are happy to accept and use as the yardstick.
I was only going on the readily available information on the net (Montesa web) which dates the frame number 1191 as November 1968....
As Mine is 1144 I was assuming, rightly or wrongly that it was earlier.
All depends on the accuracy of the info found
Versión cubos de 180 FECHA N BASTIDOR ELEMENTOS MODIFICADOS Jul. 1968 21M 0 Primera Cota 247 producida en serie. Mar. 1968 21M 500 Bastidor con "orejas" soporte guardabarros trasero Nueva guía cadena Nuevo escudo Tubo escape modificado Tubo admisión boca con dos esparragos Caja filtro aire modificada (3 tornillos) Nov. 1968 21M 1191 Guía cadena
Versión cubos de 110 FECHA N BASTIDOR ELEMENTOS MODIFICADOS Abr. 1970 21M 1800 Nuevos estribos con sierra Nuevo tapón depósito con juntas tóricas Sillin modificado Cubos de rueda de 110 mm. Rueda dentada de Duraluminio Oct. 1970 21M 2505 Bridas suspensión delantera de Duraluminio
I was hoping that you would contribute to this. The more I look at this, the more varieties I see! Cotas seem to be everything from tangerine orange to claret, a new twist on 50 shades.....??
This is something that I have been trying to find for some time. None of this is definitive, and I would be delighted if anyone can confirm, correct, or add to this thread, so that we can hopefully arrive at a complete list of correct colours and corresponding paint codes for each model. It may well be that over time, so many bikes have been re-painted in various shades that it is difficult now, to find examples with original paint, and to know what is technically correct.
In general, there appear to be at least three different reds that were used during Cota 247 production. (I know the last bike here is a 348, but the same colour is used on late 247s)
Early
The Mk 1 & 2 seem to have started out with a bright, scarlet red. I have seen examples with a darker, slightly plummy red, however re-paints and fading probably accounts for the variation. Overall, I would say that the majority started out with bright red body work.
This photo is "Greeve's" and shows his unrestored mk2
And Martin's (Triple_x) taken in 1968
Mid-life
The more orangey red seems to come in around 1973/4 (with the mk 4?)
Late
From what I can see, a darker orange/red was used in the late 1970’s.
Codes and matches
(Again, please do not take these as gospel, and hopefully they can be updated or confirmed)
Early:-
Code:?
Matches:?
Mid:-
Code:?
Matches: VW/Audi "Mars Red"
n.b. There are two different shades of "Mars Red!
1976-80 "Mars Rot" LA31B (This is slightly darker)
1980's "Mars Red" LA3 A (Has a slightly more "orangey" colour)
Supermotoscot, it looks like a mk2 from 1970 (the frame number should be between 1800 and 2505). The tank is a later one, yours should have one like the tank on sparks bike at the top of the thread. The air filter is the right one, it is just missing the cover.
I have got some colour codes somewhere, so I will have a look to see if I can find them.
The 25 looks great, I would love to get one for my youngest, but I am not aware of a dedicated 25 forum.
I thought that the photos looked familiar, I saw the bike on the website. It will be very exciting to see a feature on this (I'm a subscriber).
As to parts suppliers; in my experience I have had great service from http://www.inmotiontrials.com/ They seem to have a good stock of parts and know what they are talking about.
Once you have gone passed he UK based companies, you are going to be looking at Spain where the majority of parts can be found. There are some companies with websites in English, offering online ordering, through to guys in that don't speak English at all, let alone have email or websites. Having local contacts can make a huge difference in terms of what you can find and the cost. I would be happy to send you an email with more details as my experiences have been quite mixed!
Aside from these two areas, there are a couple of very well regarded US websites, but shipping costs don't really make these viable from the UK.
Where things become more subjective is looking for services such as engine work, wheel rebuilding, bodywork and so on. The Twinshock shop look to cover most things, but I am on the other side of the country so haven't used them. I am sure though that you will get recommendations if you are looking for a particular trade or service. How much are you planning on doing yourself?
It looks extremely original and a great project. It even looks as if it has got its original beige fuel cap under that red paint. These seem to be impossible to find.
It appears to also have the original air filter housing, rear sprocket, foot pegs, carb and inlet, and yokes, all of which are scarce and unique to the early bikes. The rims and those lovely big hubs look in great condition as well, even down to the Akront sticker. The parts that you are missing are all available (aluminium mudguards, chain cover, side stand, correct shocks).
For the gear lever, these do come up from time to time on eBay. With the front stay, it is integral to the mudguard so the most practical (but expensive) option is to buy the whole unit.
How did you come by it? Do you know anything of its history?
Congratulations on your new addition! I share your view with trying to keep it original, however some of the very early parts are tricky to find (or very expensive), as I have discovered.
It has been a bit quiet on there recently, but there are a few on this forum with early 247s so it would be great see some photos of yours, and to hear how you get on.
It is worth noting that Berlingos with the "Modutop" option (here's mine in the photos) have got roof lockers which reduce the height in the middle, and at the back. With mine, the handlebars would scrape the underside of the lockers when loading/unloading. That said, I think they are great, and as mentioned before, you can easily remove one or both rear seats to make even more room. I have shifted two bikes, with no problem.
They look like Cota 247 forks to me. These appear to be the later, mk 3 (1971) and onwards, which were then all the same up to 1980. Early Cota forks are thicker. The brake arm looks the same as the later 247s of mine, so I think this probably remained unchanged as well, after 1971.
My first port of call for parts is usually Inmotion but you could also try www.smproducts.co.uk who have the parts that you are after, listed on their website. I have found SMP very helpful and they deliver quickly. www.jimsandiford.co.uk have a few older Montesa parts, so might be worth trying. Otherwise, there are a number of parts suppliers in Spain who, between them, seem to have just about every conceivable Cota part. I have had very mixed experiences with buying parts from Spain though.
There are also a couple of US suppliers that always seem to be highly recommended (www.rmmontesa.com and www.southwestmontesa.com). These have both been very helpful with technical questions and seem to keep lots of stock, but with shipping and taxes, it invariably makes them very expensive to use from here.
Hopefully some of the old hands on here will post a couple of other recommendations as well.
With the fuel tank, have you got a one-piece fibreglass tank and seat, or is yours a separate alloy tank with a loose cover? If it is a fibreglass tank, then sealing it will help to stop it deteriorating because of the ethanol in modern petrol. This might account for the gunge in the tank if it has not been sealed or was done some time ago. If you have got an alloy tank, then a good clean should sort things. Quite a few people also put an in-line filter between the tank and the carb, which might be worth thinking about.
The engine casing does look to have been modified, but these crop up on eBay fairly regularly if you wanted to replace it. I think you will also find that your front wheel is running backwards, i.e. wrong way round. The support bar is usually on the left hand side (looking down, sitting on the bike). The rear wheel also looks a bit odd. The chrome rim is one clue, as is the fact that the brake arm is upside down.
If you have a look at this photo, I think you can see what I mean about the wheels.
Just to add another angle to this thread.... I was at a mates place yesterday where he showed me another of his gems - a 247 Cota engine in a Whitlock plated frame.Its quite an early engine,21m 1011,the bike is incomplete but would be an easy build.I didnt know Mick Whitlock even did frames for Montesa engines,he must have been a busy chap !
I couldnt get any pics as its almost buried behind about 4 other bikes,it was difficult enough to get at the engine number.I looked through all my books last night and couldnt find any reference to it,it was apparently one of about 120 commisioned by BVM in Stroud ?
For 1981 the 349 colour scheme changed to white tank and red frame.
You might be able to get an accurate date from Sandifords (http://www.jimsandiford.co.uk/) who were one of the main importers and who can supply a dating certificate if it was one that they brought in.
This is the link that I found a while ago, when we were discussing silencers before. They are listed here €200.60+ €10.50 shipping. I haven't seen anywhere else online that lists them.
Thanks for the pointers about the silencer, I'll pop it on eBay unless it is of any use to anyone here?
This one will definately be kept together and get restored in due course. My feeling was, that this sort of bike wouldn't come up for sale very often, so was worth a go. I hadn't particularly been looking to buy a mk1 at the moment, and only put in a low, speculative bid, and didn't really expect to win.
It will be tucked away for now, as I need to get on and finish the other, and more importantly, actually get out and do some riding.
I've got a Berlingo Multispace (the car version) which is a great compromise as the rear seats can be removed in a couple of minutes. As it doesn't have a bulkhead, with the passenger seat moved forward, there's loads of space.
There are no capacities shown,cant help from there. On Ebay at the moment there are some manuals and parts books I'm watching,but that may take some time....
That Cota on Ebay sold on one bid for £650 - Bargain ! (Shame it wasnt my bid.) Someone had a real deal there. I'm going to see if the VMCC can help to get the numberplate back on mine.
Jon, I have got most of the part diagrams and manual on searate pdf files if you would like any/all of the pages. I'm back at my pc on Monday if there are any that you want me to send?
I'm going to see if the VMCC can help to get the numberplate back on mine.
Montesa Cota 247 Wheel Spokes
in Montesa
Posted
Hi bombardier and well done on getting a 247 (pics and more info please!)
I had the wheels rebuilt on mine by a great guy (Vince Warner) who is based in West Sussex. http://colwoodwheelworks.co.uk/wheel-building/
Assuming that the wheels that you have are the more common, small hub type (as opposed to the large mk1 hub wheels) I know that he stored all the dimensions and specifications for the spokes, and I am sure that he would be very happy to supply the correct spokes, or to rebuild the wheels.