No cant see why. My understanding is if for example you overfilled with g/oil and created some pressure in the box it would vent through there. don't think it being missing / broken off is your problem. I might be wrong but you need to be looking for something else.
Forgive me - i thought that was the whole point of the thread and why you started it.
I don't think I articulated it as well as I could have chris, I realised this when I seen some of the responses.
If you look at my opening comments you will see I'm trying to say it is proportionately more expensive to trade a gasgas at this time in contrast to other brands because of the action of the importer. I used the 911 example to show I understand depreciation and accept it in my dealings relative to the commodity your are buying and initial outlay versus second hand value. It was the disparity created by the actions taken I was irked at. Ultimately that does come down to cash but the context I intended was the principle if that makes sense.
Its that customer loyalty that helps smooth the business path with repeat custom. If I was still in the business you would certainly be on my books as one to receive excellent offers and deals. That was the basis upon which I did business and it included a certain JS who supplied me with his kits.
Your comments encapsulate exactly what I am meaning. I don't care about the money. I have learned from this experience by speaking to people for instance, like Lawrence from BVM motos that I could pay up front for a brand new bike, send my old bike to him by courier and ask him to refund the difference in value; believing the price he decides is fair. I've actually done this with chas at John Lee motorcycles because of the distances involved. Someone else commented on an earlier thread that trust and loyalty don't pay mortgages... they do in my world. If you were still in the business you would be exactly the kind of person I'd deal with.
Last special priced bike has now gone, the whole thing will be forgotten in a week and all will be back to normal.
The original dealer who offered the low P/X with the excuse, is either inexperienced with the supply of last years model and its effect on the market ( ie typically small numbers and if it had not been raised as an issue on this forum who would have known about it )or did not want the business, plenty more dealers that do.
I agree with you wholeheartedly and thought this to be the case myself. When I initially posted I had no idea of the amount of new bikes to be shifted and the common theme being discussed by dealers was "we can't sell them because of what the importer is doing" excuse. As I said it was one dealer only that was opportunistic and as you rightly say had it not been raised on this forum many would not have even known about it. If it was to happen on a larger scale and over a longer period with future models it would influence which brand I selected for sure.
I'm confused you regularly trade in 911's, Margins are not an issue for you, You are looking to trade in a bike that is 6 months old for a newer model... but you are upset that you aren't getting a better deal.... and you are thinking that despite riding GG for the last 10yrs Beta would be better to deal with??? Maybe I have had a few too many pints but I just don't get it .
You're right you don't get it. I'm not looking for a 'better deal' or complaining about the lack thereof. I'm saying the goal post moving on the RRP of a new GG financially undermines those that are looking to part exchange for a new model. It's the principle of what's been done. I used the example of selling a second hand 911 to show it's not the money it's the principle.
Name any other brand of bike in the trials market and hypothetically consider the fact that customers of these brands, looking to part exchange in the same manner I am, would not be penalised financially the same way a GG customer would right now because of the action taken by a single entity that has the ability to influence the future value of that model. I've actually had it said to me by dealers " If it was a Beta it would be different but I can go out and buy a new one for close to what you feel yours is worth, so why would I give you that". Who can argue with that, and as I initially said, because of this action GG ownership is proportionally more expensive than other brands in the same market.
There seems to be a certain amount of confusion around my initial post. This has nothing to do with dealer incentives or ways to make less desirable models more appealing etc. It's about an importer wilfully undermining the value of used bikes that belong to customers that keep a roof over his head.
Surely it's in everyone's best interest to maintain a level of commercial integrity within a market to ensure it's ongoing success. When one faction makes a unilateral decision to enhance their own position at the detriment of others it destabilises that market. The same importer was profoundly aggrieved when customers were crossing the channel in their vans and buying bikes in Spain. The strength of the pound was such you could have a weeks holiday in the sun, pick a bike up on your return and still be cheaper than buying the equivalent bike via a recognised source!
Certificates of authenticity were the order of the day and you couldn't purchase spares for that brand if you didn't have the appropriate paperwork. Not so acceptable then when the boots on the other foot!
I was aware KTM dropped the VAT on the full range during Nov Dec and again I would urge those customers affected, make sure you reward KTM by selecting your next bike in a BMW dealership. I've used the example already in this thread and want to do so again to emphasise my point. If I were going to a Beta dealer this week with an 18 model looking to upgrade to a 19, my part exchange price would be rightly based on the original purchase price of £6399? I'll happily pay the difference. Margins aren't the issue for me, fairness and loyalty is.
If a Dealer has had a bike sitting in their showroom for a year its not commercial sense for it to still be there, unless the Dealer has no stocking plan. If an article is purchased the cost of buying, interest on the money invested in that purchase and any profit must be accounted for way before a 12 month period. I know interest rates of return are poor now but that article if not sold in the first 3 months would see me making every effort to get shot ‘pdq’. Like wise with a bike if it aint moving in 3 months it is going out either trade or at a greatly reduced offer price probably with extras....after 6 months a new model will be announced by the manufacturer so sharp on your toes is the order of the day.
Me thinks Gas Gas has made our importer an offer to clear out stock before any Brexit embargo gets in the way of our lucrative market!
Depends how you use the figures. New prices in the UK February 2018 today.
2018 300 Racing original UK price was £6250 (I am not using the £99 endings I've rounded up by a quid)
2018 300 Racing now is £5500, difference £750
2019 300 Racing now is £6400 price increase £150 year on year
Reason UK pound value as much as anything going down against the Euro.
An importer into a major market is likely to be obliged to take X no of bikes, if he has some over, he is going to discount them eventually.
I personally bought a last year 300 Gasser that way and it was great for the average rider (me), I couldn't tell the difference to the next year one to ride, but I still had a brand new bike.
I sold it for reasonable money so basically the importer had taken most of the hit not me.
If you want to sell for better money, try a private sale, ok I realise in Scotland distances are a hassle.
The fact a bike is new is more important than the minor annual differences overall.
Keep up to date buying last years model every year - surely the Scottish (or Yorkshire) way!
none of the other importers can have any stock left over because no other importer is advertising brand new bikes at slashed prices. there's no way I can accept anything other than it's poor form.
You wouldn't. And if enough people feel the same, guess what? Nobody buys GG's in your neck of the woods, and the market corrects the problem with an out of business importer.
it is unfortunate but not unfair. Nothing says life is fair. You gave the dealer a grand margin on the new bike and they want a grand margin on the trade in. Someone has to pay the business rates, electric bill, phone charges, broadband, advertising and so on (and it is you). £6300 to 5k in a year sounds about right to me. You'd lose a bit more on a BMW X5
I know all about residual loss chris the last three cars I sold were Porsche 911's. We are not talking percentages of loss or depreciation we are talking about an importer making a commercial move that ****s on everyone that ensured gasgas stayed in business in 2018 by buying their product, in order to bail himself out. No other importer has done this to my knowledge. Why would I buy gasgas again if I stand to lose more money when it comes to upgrade to the next year model in contrast to the other makes?
So 4166 net. So the trade in is about - err... three and half grand.
It is generally accepted with most motor vehicles that the bulk of depreciation is the first owner. I am sure that the value would be more in a private sale - the dealer has to make a margin on the trade in as well as the new bike. It seems a bit harsh but I don't think there has ever been a time when that was not the case.
When someone buys a new bike at £6300 and keeps it six months and then wants to sell, he wants the trade in price to be based on the £6300 he paid not a dynamic sliding scale whereby the residual value is all of a sudden £5000. It's profoundly unfair. I paid 6200 for a TRS last year and traded it for 5K for the racing I have now. If I bought a factory Beta last July at 6500 I would hope for a market value of cica 4500 because J Lampkin isn't trying to punt any new ones at 5k and therefor my anticipated trade value has not been undermined. This has never been the case for the last ten bikes I have bought and sold annually.
The mistake must be with the Gasgas importer for bringing in too much stock, to be still trying to move 18's when the 19's came out last year shows something has gone wrong.
If you have only been offered £3500 for your bike I would also suggest the dealer is trying to make too much out of it as all the 18's I have seen are well over £4000 really £4500.
Suggest you try another dealer or is geography against you ?
You are spot on with your observations on both counts. I don't want to get caught up in a slagging match, It is a greenlight for unscrupulous dealers and the rot has been started by the importer that's all I'm saying. Don't want to go any further now and personalise it but do feel the need to say something about dealers because I have inadvertently identified one specifically. My local dealer is not involved and for the avoidance of confusion has always been very straight forward and fair. I have spoken to BVM about a deal and would commend them to anyone. Lawrence was very honest and possibly more than fair in his price given the fact he would have to sell the trade in, IMHO he is someone the buying public could have absolute confidence in. It has been just one dealer that lowballed and they will remain anonymous. Others will use it and who can blame them. The percentage lost on goods bought new is reasonably predictable but when the gross figure of a new unit changes at the end of the production year then the deficit created has to be sucked up by someone and its hardly fair it's the customer.
Im not at all sure what you are saying is true countrywide, and i cant see all makes worth more than Gas Gas?
Unless you have done a survey of all makes all versions and ccs its just anecdotal?
I know the racing (standard) doesnt hold its value like the GP, and certainly just last week a registered 250 '18 sold for 4300.
Maybe scotland is different?
I don't need to do a survey my personal experience illustrates things perfectly. I buy an 18 racing for £6399 in july, go to upgrade this week and told by a dealer my trade value is £3500 due to the fact the importer has discounted his remaining stock of brand new 18 models to circa 5K. Dealer says why would I give you any more, I can't sell it because the importer has undermined the market! Look at the disparity in the figures that has created. The amount of discount he is offering to get rid of stock has proportionally impacted the figure I can reasonably expect to achieve as a trade in. It's simple economics or as the experts define it, the science of self interest!
I was referring to the inability to change a bike for a £1000 / £1200 these days is across the board.
Also the condition of a 6 / 12 month old bike doesn’t seem to have much affect on its resale. Some 6 month old bikes can look almost destroyed yet an absolute mint condition hardly used example fetches only a couple of hundred pounds more.
But hey ho, suppose we don’t buy and ride these bikes to save money, just depends how much fun we’re having and if it justifies the money to change each year. Maybe we’ll see the guys like myself who change without fail evey 12 months starting to keep the bikes much longer.
Yeah, your right on both points. It's a shame because the people who work in these factories and the dealers and all the off spin of trials, have bills to pay and we should all encourage every aspect of this great pastime and sport, doing what we can to ensure it continues to thrive. I'm disappointed with this because I am financially disadvantaged for buying a certain brand by those meant to be promoting that brand!
John Lampkin is renowned for his integrity and to be fair there are the other importers who have far smaller markets than GG and Beta that continue to honour their customers and I applaud them for that. All I'm asking for is parity!
Long gone are the days when you could buy a new bike, run it for a year then trade it in with £1000 / £1200 for a new bike the following year. This is across the board, but I can agree that for what ever reason a 6 to 12 month old gasgas seems to be getting hit harder. I lost a small fortune on my 2018 300 GP, enough to make think twice about buying another for a while.
It's not really across the board duggan it's specific to Gasgas. If I had an 18 Factory Beta this week looking to upgrade to the same 19 version I would not be looking at the cash outlay I am by virtue of the fact none of the other importers work like this.
The beauty is that you don't need a new bike.Beta still run a motor that Noah used on the ark and the 4rts aren't much newer.
Only valid reason for a new bike is less maintenance.
I hear what you're saying Breagh but again it's not relevant in the context of my argument. Every year manufacturers attempt to develop and improve the brand, so each successive year the buying public have a subjectively perceived advantage / reason for making that upgrade. It's what perpetuates the business and keeps the sport current. There is financial disparity for anyone in the UK that bought an 18 racing Gasgas (and there must be many) directly due to the business model of the importer that ultimately means it will cost you more to be an annually returning customer - relative to other brands! The very thing that keeps everyone at Gasgas in a job.
Agreed but that's not what I'm talking about. I saying over and above the element you allude to GasGas have undermined the customers ability to get a proportionate return value (relative to other brands) when the new models come out because of this action. Is this not the bread and butter of all the dealers that are trying to sell their wares, come the release of new models people purchasing them and cascading the trade ins through the market to those that don't want the outlay of a new bike etc.
Has GasGas ownership just become the least value for money in the market. All the talk now is how people aren't spending the way they once were, Brexit affecting bike sales, stability of the pound etc etc and add into the mix a six month old racing only worth approximately half its new price because the importer has flooded the market with unsold stock ; but still wanting you to pay £6399 for this years upgrade. How does that work other than the obvious fact that buying GasGas is now £1000 dearer than other brands.
So just when loyal customers wish to upgrade due to new model release they have to suck up the deficit, sounds fair enough in the ruthless world of modern commerce. Now then where's that Beta brochure!
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Gas gas gearbox/crankcase breather
in Gas Gas
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No cant see why. My understanding is if for example you overfilled with g/oil and created some pressure in the box it would vent through there. don't think it being missing / broken off is your problem. I might be wrong but you need to be looking for something else.