I loved watching the World Championship Trials, now the pleasure has gone, as I am studying if they stop or not and looking what marks the observer has given, cannot concerntrate on the beauty that it once was, Top rider also get away with a lot more in the new rules as observers are scared of giving them a 5 where a lesser rider would be.
Sport moves on from generation to generation, things progress and so do rules, Riders of "TODAY" should decide, people who rode twin shock can still do twin shock trials today, air cooled, pre65, etc. we are talking about today Modernday Trials, the old format worked, Bike sales decline is nothing to do with what rules are in place, there are different Trials which cater for all as stated! So when it comes to "INDOORS" will it be "none stop" NO! so they have condradicted themselves, Just go back to how it was.
one of the unique things about the scottish is that decent riders can have a crack at beating the likes of dougie etc on a good day if they have a bit of luck etc ..... i dont think its relevant for this topic
I see your point. So then why not make the WTC the same way, since beating Bou would be, today, better than even beating Dougie, right? Why deny a rider that possibility? One line for all.
So you advocate that the WTC have the same number of lines as the Scottish, correct?
Are you an individual who believes that good things can't be made even better? (I didn't say the Scottish sucks, I just say it can be made better, by giving Dougie more of a points challenge, and giving the least talented rider there more of a chance to not drag his bike throught sections all day. Or should we just have ONE line at the WTC, where Bou gets 0 points, and the least talented rider there drags/crashes his bike around all day - that's not really "riding" - for 100+ points?)
So lets say Dec bullock Rob Waite and Harry Harvey should be able to ride?
Think you would find that any section they could get through would be cleaned by Bou so why would they want to compete having nothing but 5's?
The reality is that sections that test the best means that there isnt many more than 30 in the world that can ride at this level, the fact that the 15 that dont isnt down to severity otherwise it would be easy enough to solve.
Diluting the standard of sections so that Harry can ride is just plain daft and would make a joke of whaats not working very welll anyway.
I dont know what level you ride at but surely if you were forced to ride such an easy course that you cleaned everything you'd soon realise the point I'm making.
Regardless the WTC should be a spectacle that looks something special to me you and the average punter.
So if you like the DIFFERENT LINES for different skill levels at the WTC, do you agree with me that the Scottish Six Day, which sort of suffers from the same problem, would do better to have TWO (maybe more, but I'm not advocating that) different lines in at least a few select sections, so that Dougie/Dibs/Alex/Brownie, etc. don't clean all 36 sections on any day, while another rider drags his bike though the sections all day for 100 points? It's the same thing, really. Shouldn't we be consistent? Or should the WTC rounds all ride the SAME line?
I think I'd rather enduro because near me I have many more open areas where I can ride and there is even an Enduro track nearby used by David Knight.
I would love to stick with trials but I think i'd have more fun with enduro and that's what it's all about for me "FUN"
I was wondering how different it is from Trials, I mean there's obviously the speed aspect of it but i'd love to get involved on the enduro scene and see what it's like!
Also if I was to get a bike does anyone know any things to look out for? (I know this is a trials forum but yeah i'd like to ask here)
Are you by chance on the FIM trials rules committee?
Stop & Hop.....versus Stop & Yawn. I can see that some people don't find stop & hop as exciting. Endurocross, for example, is more exciting than trials, for the spectators, so that's probably the single biggest thing that the new rules have going for them (more "action" for spectators.)
Junior line. Ray attempted the section Saturday, but never got up the big ledge. I never knew he even rode sunday till I saw the results! Roper and Davis looked good on the first loop, then faded.
Davis (and Roper too) has gotten SECOND at a recent National....the kids are gettin' good! I admire the effort of all our National riders who rode that world round.
The trials god has spoken, and he says the new FIM rules were to blame for the ridiculously high scores! He should know! So this thread is now SETTLED/FINISHED. Saint Bou himself said, in the Cycle News article on that round, regarding the far-out scores: "with the new rules it's difficult to get it completely correct."
So we can take the world of FIM officials who, some have argued, are alligned with the corporate interests, or we can take the world of our hero, Saint Bou, who actually rode the event.
FYI: page 34-35 of the June 25 issue also has an article on the recent US National weekend! Saint Smage dominated....great job Patrick.
Per day that's what the Scottish Six Day basically works out to for the very best riders, so maybe that's not a bad idea, tim. Now if the Scottish can evolve (to stop/hop) it will be an even better event (it's already a very good event.)
Those with ambition, yes. But realistically the sections should be set with national class and bubbling under riders in mind. Your James Frys, Sam Haslams etc.
Cody Webb and Ray Peters rode the OPEN CLASS at the USA world round. Peters was likely the oldest rider that day (still with super-human skills, but not a World Pro rider at all), yet he was able to get through enough sections. That's not a bad solution, do you think (the Open Class)? In the Open Class, apparently riders who are not Youth/Junior aged, and not World Pro level, can still ride a world round.
I applaud the hard work of the trials community, and value the individual contributions. I've seen first hand, in person, the great contribution that, for instance, one poster on this very thread has done (I was very impressed.)
No, he's not a Nazi, but I do disagree strongly with the new no-fun rules. He's certainly entitled to his opinion.
Perhaps a solution is to start 1/2 the riders at section one and the others 1/2 way round the course. This also has the advantage that breaking in the sections (important on slippery becks) is shared out a bit more.
Cheers
That's what our local club has done on a few occasions when all the classes have started at the same time, with some of the same sections. Helps spread it out quite a bit.
I disagree with this statement. We already have that now, Trials by video game ! `quote by funtrials`{I yearn for the day when that rock can be made by the average person, because the bikes will hopefully become so incredibly advanced (front wheel drive, electric, better tires, etc.).}
You went from enthusiast to just about nuts as no matter `how` great those bikes become, the crash still results in a lot of pain for mere mortals!
I can give you an old TL125 if you'd like, but I am going to LOVE my new shiny 2027 GasGas Alfie Lampkin Factory Replica with it's two-wheel drive, 60 horsepower, 90 pound weight, electric motor, suction-cup tires, computer-controlled traction, voice-activated shifting, etc. I'm going to love making what Bou does today seem like child's play (if the FIM will allow that.) I can do more on my Raga today than I could on my Fantic, when I was much thinner, younger, and stronger. We took the old Fantic on the trails a couple years ago and it STUNK! I believe that in hell there are a bunch of Ariels and TL125's for me to ride.
One other example is that "smartphone" type devices will, ok maybe 100 years from now, but it will happen, be implanted in the brain in the womb, and there's nothing that reactionery types can do about it.
(We will have to implement a new rule that says that my main trials nemesis can't just shout out "6th gear!" while I'm in a section, however. Oh well.)
You really don't grasp what is happening to the "support" riders if the few top elite are making this type of score.
Well said!
Watching a great rider (none of us here can touch him!) like Alexandre Ferrer look foolish by FAILING TWENTY-SEVEN times(!) in one trial, literally dragging his bike through the sections (like an Endurocross rider) to just get a spider-"three", crashing, etc., is a disgrace. He's a god, and when he's not handcuffed in the sections, he provides a spectacular show. He can hop on his back wheel, in place, trying to make that impossible turn, to set up for that spectacular 8 foot tall ledge. This super man is being saddled with Kryptonite by the new FIM rules.
The organizers are going to have to realize that gate receipts are going to dwindle, because the level of riding will now be inferior to what fun-trials delivered. Lower manufacturer profits are sure to follow.
Mick - did you get a chance to see riders in the sections at Richmond BTC at Reeth or were you stuck in front of computer all day?
With the best will in the world you can't always set sections that prove to be of the right severity, possibly more so in this first year of no stop.
Criticising the Spanish is almost certainly uncalled for despite the high scores. Over the years I have worked at setting out trials, mx and grasstrack with many different people and just like Mick they all have the best interests of the sport at heart and work damn hard to get it right and make it enjoyable for the riders.
My view is that you should aim for a winners average score of about 0.3 to 0.5 marks per section, whilst at the same time the worst rider should average no more than 3 or 3.5.
Cheers
The well-intentioned Spanish organizers likely wanted to provide some incredible rides for the crowd's benefit, but these now handcuffed two-wheeled gods were not able to deliver to the level that the Spanaird organizers were used to under the old, more spectacular, rules. Just like Endurocross riders can't tackle the same incredible obstacles as stop-allowed trials riders can handle, so too can no-stop trials riders not deliver the level of riding that stop-allowed trials riders can deliver. The new rules require a "dumbing down" of the performance level of these trials gods. The fans, the riders, and the sport, all suffer. However, a small cadre of elite corporate types (pulling strings behind the scenes) might laught all the way to the bank, but that's not our main concern.
I scored at Tennessee and we had a rock that was 50/50 on if you made it.(including Bou!) After I returned home I found footage of the same rock from the 2008 event. Most riders made the same rock easily with a stop and perfect set up. Now you have to take what you get on the approach. Totally different riding!
A time limit puts an end to the all-day dab, as we saw in 2012.
Sounds like the sport is going backwards if obstacles were much easier in the past than today! I like progress, not regress. People want to watch the world's best, they don't want to watch, say for example, beginner riders. I yearn for the day when that rock can be made by the average person, because the bikes will hopefully become so incredibly advanced (front wheel drive, electric, better tires, etc.). I think our region's very best rider can likely do more than, say, even world chamption Martin Lampkin could do (in certian sections) because of the great bike technology and better techniques etc. Unless he's handcuffed.
You're absolutely right, it's "totally different riding"...inferior riding. Your example clearly shows that. Taking progress backwards, to appease the corporate interest$....not good.
Fun Trials, I don't know why the scores were so high, but I'm not on here claiming I do.
My views on this topic are well known and I am working to secure the best possible future for my sport and that doesn't include posting anything without I'm sure of my facts
Next week I will be spending 5 days away from my wife and work to attend the FIM Europe Congress to do what I can to move our sport forward.
The other day I was at Nord Vue working on the British round and while we were there we had Thierry Michaud on the phone making sure we knew what was expected of us, maybe his time might have been better spent ringing Spain but I don't know that.
:rotfl: 
Spanish Fiasco?
in World Championship Chat
Posted
Great post.