bobtlr Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 hello, ive recently put an 1988 rtl engine in my tlr 200 and now have trouble riding it the bike spins verry easy and the engine is not smooth (also the clutch slips are these the same plates as on a tlr 200/250? and is there a difference whit the cota 4 rt plates?) I've put the 200 engine back in and i plan to sort this out during the winter. Some ideas to make the engine smoother? (heavy flyweel,change timing, ... ?) all help is welcome regards bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 I'm surprised that you're finding the RTL engine too aggressive as the RTL is softer and smoother than a TLR250 in its power delivery. Both engines share virtually identical components as far as I know, with a different ignition on the RTL giving it the softer delivery than the TLR. If yours is too quick and not smooth it could be that valve/ignition timing is set incorrectly so I'd start by checking these. Then valve clearances. Carburation - which carb have you used. Early RTL used a 22mm carb, possibly the same as the TLR200. Later RTL, which yours is being a 1988, had a 26mm carb I think. If you've used the TLR200 carb it may be jetted incorrectly so worth checking the jets. For the 22mm carb they should be Main = 110, Pilot = 38, Pilot screw 1.75 turns out. Sorry, don't have the Slide number, Needle number and clip position Exhaust - which exhaust are you using. The RTL motor may not run well with the standard 200 exhaust as they are a bit restrictive. If you're using that fit a WES or DEP system. Where did the engine come from - did you take it out of a running RTL and if so did it perform the same in that bike or did it run correctly. If you have just bought an engine only and used TLR200 CDI/Coil they may be causing problems, try to get original RTL CDI/coil - Ellastone Offroad should be able to help if you need to. As regards the power, obviously it is going to have more than the TLR200 so it is going to spin up easier and it will be lighter on the front too. The TLR200 has more than enough power for twinshock events but they are not at all aggressive and find grip very well. The RTL power delivery can be made softer by reducing compression, either by altering the piston crown or adding a spacer under the cylinder but I've no experience of either so can't give precise details. Another way is to retard tha valve timing half a tooth by drilling the cam wheel in the appropriate place to achieve this. It makes a difference. Also fit a slow action throttle. A friend of mine has recently done the same conversion to a 200 and the only engine mod was to retard the valve timing and use a WES exhaust. I've tried the bike and it is very soft and smooth. I've also put a RTL motor in my Seeley and that too is smooth, so something fundamental is causing the problem you are experiencing, it isn't a characteristic of the engine. As regards the clutch, it's a Honda and Honda trials clutches are not very good. If used a lot they overheat, the plates swell and you get the cable go slack and constantly have to adjust it until it cools down again. They are also grabby and erratic, not very smooth - there are mods you can do to help overcome this, but depending on who you ask there are several different solutions - they don't all work. My mates with their TLR250's have yet to find the one that does. Being a 1988 model though, yours should have the later, bigger clutch, different from the TLR and maybe not prone to the awful snatching and jerking of the earlier model. They shouldn't slip though. Maybe the plates are just worn or the clutch isn't adjusted properly. Don't use fully synthetic oil as this may also cause the clutch to slip. I doubt the 4RT plates will fit but you really wouldn't want a 4RT clutch either - it's in or out with nothing inbetween. Good luck as it will make a nice bike when sorted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickymicky Posted October 10, 2007 Report Share Posted October 10, 2007 I had clutch slip on my'88 RTL. Mine was easily cured, the slots in the aluminium clutch basket where the clutch plates sit had become notched. I simply filed them smooth again,finishing off with a bit of wet and dry ( it can be done in situ if pay particular attention to cleanliness). Cured it completely.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtlr Posted October 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2007 I'm surprised that you're finding the RTL engine too aggressive as the RTL is softer and smoother than a TLR250 in its power delivery. Both engines share virtually identical components as far as I know, with a different ignition on the RTL giving it the softer delivery than the TLR. If yours is too quick and not smooth it could be that valve/ignition timing is set incorrectly so I'd start by checking these. Then valve clearances.Carburation - which carb have you used. Early RTL used a 22mm carb, possibly the same as the TLR200. Later RTL, which yours is being a 1988, had a 26mm carb I think. If you've used the TLR200 carb it may be jetted incorrectly so worth checking the jets. For the 22mm carb they should be Main = 110, Pilot = 38, Pilot screw 1.75 turns out. Sorry, don't have the Slide number, Needle number and clip position Exhaust - which exhaust are you using. The RTL motor may not run well with the standard 200 exhaust as they are a bit restrictive. If you're using that fit a WES or DEP system. Where did the engine come from - did you take it out of a running RTL and if so did it perform the same in that bike or did it run correctly. If you have just bought an engine only and used TLR200 CDI/Coil they may be causing problems, try to get original RTL CDI/coil - Ellastone Offroad should be able to help if you need to. As regards the power, obviously it is going to have more than the TLR200 so it is going to spin up easier and it will be lighter on the front too. The TLR200 has more than enough power for twinshock events but they are not at all aggressive and find grip very well. The RTL power delivery can be made softer by reducing compression, either by altering the piston crown or adding a spacer under the cylinder but I've no experience of either so can't give precise details. Another way is to retard tha valve timing half a tooth by drilling the cam wheel in the appropriate place to achieve this. It makes a difference. Also fit a slow action throttle. A friend of mine has recently done the same conversion to a 200 and the only engine mod was to retard the valve timing and use a WES exhaust. I've tried the bike and it is very soft and smooth. I've also put a RTL motor in my Seeley and that too is smooth, so something fundamental is causing the problem you are experiencing, it isn't a characteristic of the engine. As regards the clutch, it's a Honda and Honda trials clutches are not very good. If used a lot they overheat, the plates swell and you get the cable go slack and constantly have to adjust it until it cools down again. They are also grabby and erratic, not very smooth - there are mods you can do to help overcome this, but depending on who you ask there are several different solutions - they don't all work. My mates with their TLR250's have yet to find the one that does. Being a 1988 model though, yours should have the later, bigger clutch, different from the TLR and maybe not prone to the awful snatching and jerking of the earlier model. They shouldn't slip though. Maybe the plates are just worn or the clutch isn't adjusted properly. Don't use fully synthetic oil as this may also cause the clutch to slip. I doubt the 4RT plates will fit but you really wouldn't want a 4RT clutch either - it's in or out with nothing inbetween. Good luck as it will make a nice bike when sorted. i ve just bought an complete engine and fitted into an tlr 200 using the tlr 200 carb and electrics, it runs on a stock exhaust so i should change the ignition coil (under the tank) and the cdi? i will check the clutch plates as i suspect they may by used out is there a place where i can buy order new plates (i dont have the partnumbers) and the manual of the rtl 250 1988? regards bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big john Posted October 10, 2007 Report Share Posted October 10, 2007 I've got a better idea, replace the TLR200 motor back in the frame it came from and sell me the 1988 RTL motor? Big John PS I have a RTL250S 1988 Manual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02-apr Posted October 10, 2007 Report Share Posted October 10, 2007 Don't do it - he's got too much lying about already! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big john Posted October 10, 2007 Report Share Posted October 10, 2007 Nonsense, I'm working on several projects at the moment, but I would like specifically a 1988 RTL motor! Big John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g4321 Posted October 10, 2007 Report Share Posted October 10, 2007 Nonsense, I'm working on several projects at the moment, but I would like specifically a 1988 RTL motor!Big John Why not give me the RTL roling chassis, I would put an engine in it and try to ride it . Its a shame to have a bike like an RTL which is sitting unused Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big john Posted October 10, 2007 Report Share Posted October 10, 2007 (edited) Nonsense, I'm working on several projects at the moment, but I would like specifically a 1988 RTL motor!Big John Why not give me the RTL roling chassis, I would put an engine in it and try to ride it . Its a shame to have a bike like an RTL which is sitting unused No deal! I'd prefer that '88 motor... Big John Sorry, changed my mind, don't need it now! Edited October 10, 2007 by Big John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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