Hi Guy's.

OK Just going to throw a spanner in the work,s

Isn't it about time we stopped using the term "PRE 65"? This was coined in the first place by Deryk Wylde. for the trials championship that he set up. And since then the term as been abused by everyone, that has laid a spanner on a period trials bike since.

To my mind, and others, any British Trials Bike should now be named,A British Twin-Shock.(BTS). And there should be different categories within the criteria, including as an end class the now famous "Special" class,and has everyone knows, this is the class, that most machines should fall into?

Regards Charlie.

Yep, you cannot buy skill,

I usually get beat on my Ty by a chap older than me on a.....

rigid bantam!

LOL we all get beatem by him

Hi Guy's.

OK Just going to throw a spanner in the work,s

Isn't it about time we stopped using the term "PRE 65"? This was coined in the first place by Deryk Wylde. for the trials championship that he set up. And since then the term as been abused by everyone, that has laid a spanner on a period trials bike since.

To my mind, and others, any British Trials Bike should now be named,A British Twin-Shock.(BTS). And there should be different categories within the criteria, including as an end class the now famous "Special" class,and has everyone knows, this is the class, that most machines should fall into?

Regards Charlie.

Hi Charlie

OK some more spanners coming into the ring. Accepting your arguement all non "special" class bike MUST conform then to a copy of the factory sales brouchure in every way. Just look at Ariels, was looking at Mick Grants on Sunday with it's factory fitted carbon fibre primary cover which i'm thinking of copying for the James, Cubs C15 and to get back on topic sort of Bantams.

That rules the lot out so we all ride in the "specials" class and we are back to square one.

Oh yes is a Majesty or a Cotswold now going to be classified a BTS British Twin Shock ?

Edited December 23, 201015 yr by Old trials fanatic

Hi Guy's ,

Hi OTF.

Cotwold's Majesty's.?

Probably "BTS,FEI". (far eastern influence)?

Regards Charlie.

Hi Guy's ,

Hi OTF.

Cotwold's Majesty's.?

Probably "BTS,FEI". (far eastern influence)?

Regards Charlie.

LOL LOL Merry Christmas Charlie

The Bantam I plan on building will be ridden in the BMCA trials.. Pre 1970.

I just picked this subject up, it happened to be in the pre 65 section ??

http://www.bmca.org.uk/classes.html

Edited December 23, 201015 yr by bo drinker

If you keep the comments comeing like the above you might help to melt the snow for the Yorkshire Classic Boxing Day trial, its the last one you can do without gators?

Coming from a road racing background the Classics had a set of rules written by the C.R.M.C. which nearly every club in Britain use.It would make sense for trials clubs to do the same thing.When I built my Honda K4 race bike it was straight forward as I knew exactly what to do to the bike and knew that it could be raced anywhere.Been on a few websites trying to find out what I can do to my Bantam but it seems clubs have different specs.,if there was a set of rules/regs that everyone used it would make life a bit easier.

cheers the noo Brian

,if there was a set of rules/regs that everyone used it would make life a bit easier.

cheers the noo Brian

LOL but thats my point theoretically a bike would have to ride in the specials class JUST because they didnt have fork gaitors fitted. Fit gaitors then the bike runs in the "normal" class

And people moan about the Scottish Pre65

Last time we rode a Yorks Classic Trial (no fork gaiters) we were followed round for almost all the trial by one club member who never stopped moaning at us for committing this heinous offence against yorkshire decency, needless to say we have not been back.

Last time we rode a Yorks Classic Trial (no fork gaiters) we were followed round for almost all the trial by one club member who never stopped moaning at us for committing this heinous offence against yorkshire decency, needless to say we have not been back.

Did you complain?? I must admit if I had been out there and someone kept on I'd have kicked off.

Hi,

The thought that there are no such entities as 'Pre-65 trials' is entirely correct - and I should know because I am guilty of the heinous crime of having coined the term!!!

Trouble is, time goes by, and with its passage memories fail and, more importantly, many of those actually involved at the time are no longer with us.

The reason for the creation of the term 'pre-65' was not some puritanical dream to maintain a superior 'status quo' for those lucky enough to own a genuine classic British motorcycle, but because many of us were working chaps, often with young families, who could never hope to own a brand new competition machine. We loved our sport and rode in trials as often as we could, at whatever level we could achieve be it local club events, local centre, regional as we progressed and even the lofty realms of 'nationals' for the skilled few.

Then Sammy Miller swopped his faith from the British industry and took over the Bultaco Sherpa in late 1964. Suddenly organisers had to rethink their ideas on course plotting as the trials world followed suit. Bultaco, Montesa and Ossa suddenly became the fashion - totally, in reality, because their designers looked at trials riding and designed a complete motorcycle suitable for the task, whereas the British manufacturers almost universally designed machines for everyday road use and then slightly modified them for trials use.

The new breed could turn on a sixpence and had controllable power from tickover that meant you could lift the front end over obstacles, sections became narrower, tighter, steeper. Suddenly the riders of the old British bikes found they could no longer even wheel the machines round the sections, let alone ride them !

That left two possibilities - create trials that the older bikes could cope with or go try some other sport.

The answers came from a meeting of the minds between yours truly, John Smith of the Rochdale club and Derek Lord whilst we were practising on our bikes, me on my Ariel HT5, John on his Norton 500T and Derek riding whichever one was free at the minute. We decided to create a trial to suit our machines and chose a favourite old bit of trials ground at Shawforth above the Red Lion pub. We called it the 'Bigger Banger Trial' and limited entries to riders of British trials machines with two classes, rigid and sprung. 56 hardy souls entered from the Lancashire/Yorkshire borders and the winner was Arthur Lampkin riding his ex-works rigid BSA B33 Gold Star.

Also present were the riders who were later to create the Lans/Yorks Classic club including Howard Midgley and John Craven. I duly reported the event in my column in Trials and Motocross News and received all sorts of queries from various places around the country, including invitations to 'come and ride' in various trials to advise them how to create similar events. Those interested included Dennis Bridges of the Stratford-on-Avon club, Mike Rees of the Islwyn club and Adrian Moss of the Golden Valley club.

We soon decided that an eligibility format was needed and the simplistic route was to say that machines could be created using any components that were generally available in catalogues of the British manufacturers, and since the last manufacturer to offer a pre-unit trials model in their catalogue were AMC at Plumstead with their AJS and Matchless models in the 1964 catalogue, the simple definition 'pre-65' seemed easy to understand at the time. In its day it was useful as a guiding template for clubs - but then life continued and the world moved on.

Now if you want to know about the British Bike Championship that I created - that's another story for another day.