Kicking The Kickstart

[lian]

Hi everybody.

Recently i've changed my Sherco 2,9 by lil'younger GasGas so now i have adaptation period to '06 300 Raga.

But immediatly i faced with some really big differences.

1st - kickstarter pushes stiffer then Sherco's and have less motion to engage engine (in lower position it hits footpeg). I need to kick it much harder than Sherco's to start, but it dont start the bike from 1st kick, even after some more tries it wont start, choke on (i.e. i won't start bike without dabbing if it shut up while i standing)

The difference between engines capacity is 20cc (280 sherco vs 300 gg) so i dont think that GG's compression cause this problem with kicking the starter.

2nd - fan on GG works to loud and so often so i dont remember i noticed similar work on Sherco. I changed antifreeze to G12 red 1:1 with water and these days didn't open throttle wide.. What does it mean? By the way, now i have switch with marks cloud/sun - what for?

3rd - while riding sometimes i feel jerking, like fuel periodically dont go to carb or air filter is dirty. Filter is ok, fuel tank' cock is ok, carb seems to be clean. Any problem with jet or mixture regulation or smth more?

Is 1st question may be linked with 3rd post problem?

Thanks for any help

[micm]

As far as the kick start is concerned I have found personally that Gassers, especially the 300's are tricky to start.

That is, they are much more difficult than a Sherco 290.

I suggest you should feel the engine compression through the kick start and turn it to the optimum position before trying to kick.

Also it may be easier in neutral.

Good luck.

[lian]

As i figured out - thing that kick start hitting a footpeg is usual in GG, so kickstart lever positioned right. But even on neutral im jumping on lever alot (not jump ofcourse)...

In case of very hard and quick push on lever and quick open throttle at same time, i finally can engage engine, but it take so much strength and my energy so if i'd stand on bike and try to start it in section - i'd definitely have a 5.

Don't think i can't start bike, on Sherco i can start it while stationary in section but on GG i think its not a problem with kickstart...somewhere deeper i think, causing that damn jerking, so before drop off im worry - if it shut up while my front end will be already airborn?... You see..

[spenser]

Check spark plug gap (0.5-0.6mm), sounds like it may be a bit rich on the bottom end, try closing the pilot mixture adjustment screw in a bit (1/4 turn at a time). The 300 is almost 25cc biggger in displacement than the 2.9 Sherco and can be a bit of a bear to start, especially later in the day when you are tired from hanging on to the beast, with the Gassers, a fast kick is most important, almost like a stabbing action of the leg.

Spencer

Edited December 2, 2009 by Spenser

[bowergas]

easy kick method

1. bike in gear

2. with clutch out pull bike backwards so piston is at TDC

3. clutch in

4. kick the starter

5. easy start!

works for me ..............

[lian]

Im about my 3rd question - tryed yesterday to regulate carb fuel-mix bolt by screwdriver to find that point when bike will move smooth without jerks. But i dont know in what position previous owner leave it so could you explain me, what position it need to be open from fully involute position (if it describes somewhere in manual i'd like link). Maybe it will affect kickstart work!

And what for that switch cloud/sun that i wrote earlier?

Thanks.

[laser1]

Set the fuel screw:

1) Lower idle way down till almost stall

2) When Idle speed has completely settled down, VERY quickly and deliberately, give the throttle a wide open pull. Listen for a low engine bog (lean bog) - the engine will not "come upto power" quickly, and hesitates while producing a bogging sound.

3) lean fuel/air screw 1/2 turn. Fuel screw = turn in. Air screw = turn out

4) repeat2 and 3 until you can "just" detect an obvious lean bog. (adjust idle speed accordingly after each iteration)

5) Add aprox 3/4 turn (richer)

There is a fuel screw adjustemnt video on here somewhere that Dale M made (GG USA) and is very helpful as you can hear what im talking about. Cant seem to find it at the moment.

Found it - See vid#12. About 75% of the way through.

http://d-mis-web.ana.bris.ac.uk/personal/H...f/media/gasgas/

Cloud/Sun setting - is a dual map ignition setting.

Sun = revs out fully. Cloud&Rain= (mud) setting and the ignition advance is less aggresive. Not a huge difference.

Edited December 6, 2009 by laser1

[lian]

Wow, nice manual and video-library, Thanks.

But...

4) repeat2 and 3 until you can "just" detect an obvious lean bog. (adjust idle speed accordingly after each iteration)

on video he didn't adjusted idle speed after each iteration. Is it ok to do like he did?

By the way, that bogging sound i met sometimes (while bike rode jerky) and after giving more and more throttle, engine just bogging lower and lower and finally shut up. But bike actually rode well some time, between this annoying incidents... How it may to be explained?

Edited December 7, 2009 by Lian

[laser1]

Doesnt really matter what direction you approach the solution from. Dale's method may be easier to follow. Also, I tend to use a very low idle, so I tend to optimize it if it's idling too high or too low. The idle in the video is higher than I use, so he didnt end up stalling the bike when he went real lean to start.

Assuming that your bike is working correctly other than the fuel screw setting, if your right on the lean threashold, you will sometimes get an intermitant response depending on what load and carb circuit the fuel/air is transitioning from.

IMO - The std PHBL 26mm dellorto runs best with a fairly rich pilot circuit.

What is your current jetting setup and fuel screw position?

[lian]

What is your current jetting setup and fuel screw position?

Yesterday managed take off carb. It's clean inside.

I have Keihin, fuel screw position is 360+180' from full turned in (clockwise), jet is "K" (like star) 45, if i remembered it right.

Edited December 9, 2009 by Lian

[laser1]

OK - You have a small correction to apply to the method I showed you. One thing about the keihin that is different from the dellorto carb shown in the video and described in my below method is that the screw you adjust to set the fuel/air mix is actually a AIR screw. With the air screw, turning the screw out lets more air in=leaner. This requires you to turn the screw all the way out at the start (aprox 4 turns) to achieve the over lean condition described in the video (definate lean bog).

FYI - All all the carbs I am familiar with:

Air screw = (lean = out, to increase air) located on air box side of needle

Fuel screw = (lean = in, to reduce gas) located on piston side of needle

The Keihin is an excellent carb and comes std on the RAGA model GG's. All the other bikes come with a Dellorto as std equipment. Depending on temp and altitude, you may want a richer pilot in your bike. If you do a search, I think there are many threads on Keihin jetting. As Dale mentioned in the video, if you end up at an extreem position setting of your air screw, then the pilot jet should be changed. I personally would change the the jet to a richer one, if for instance, I ended up screwing the air screw only 1/2 turn or less from fully closed as the prefered setting using the WOT method. Ideally, about 1 1/2 turns out is good.

FYI - The air screw adjustment is not a static (set and forget) setting. It needs to be properly adjusted depending on how the air entering the bike changes.

Hot temp - would need a leaner air screw adjustment setup(bike gets less O2 in hot weather)

Hot & Humid - Even leaner than above as additional O2 is displaced by Water.

Cold temp - Would need richer adjustment setup - cold air has more O2 molecules

Also - not sure this was mentioned before - but make sure the bike is warmed up well, before you mess with the air screw. (I tell people to make sure the fan has cycled on/off a few times)

[lian]

Thank you, laser1, very cognitive. Will grasp...