nigel dabster Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) Glad some of you ain't running my company! The old process most agreed was broke, the new process is 2 jobs in and not tried and tested and some want to go back to the original broken process? Gizza has a bit of a point, although not "broken" the btc did have serious problems but the dash for no stop seems to have up set the customers both paying and riding, so who were the changes for? The biggest mistake is that no one (and one of the ACU committee agreed with me) has clearly stated what was trying to be achieved by switching to no stop and how it would be measured success or not? Edited May 23, 2012 by Nigel Dabster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_scorpa3 Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 The ACU implemented these changes for the good of the sport. if it doesnt work so be it but something had to be tried. the S3 championship was improved by a change to no stop so it was surely worth a try with the British championship. Perhaps Mr Beatabeta should put himself up for election at the ACU and show us all how it should be done! Well said!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breagh Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Do you think the observers were instructed to 5 all riders for a split second stop at the BTC? If so all that would create is bad feeling. Speaking only fromSSDT experience I would never 5 a rider as long as they are making a genuine attempt to keep moving. Perhaps that's it"genuine moving rules",sound's rubbish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telecat Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) The ACU implemented these changes for the good of the sport. if it doesnt work so be it but something had to be tried. the S3 championship was improved by a change to no stop so it was surely worth a try with the British championship. Perhaps Mr Beatabeta should put himself up for election at the ACU and show us all how it should be done! This isn't quite right is it? The IMPORTERS wanted this change and forced the ACU's hand. They then fiddled with the sections at Westwood. Specifically, John Shirt, John Lampkin and Nigel Birkett were mentioned to me as ignoring Graham Jarvis and altering sections to their own taste. It's a debatable point as to whether the sections were easier or not. If The Importers want to run the Sport I suggest they leave the ACU and run their own Trials to whatever rules they desire then see who turns up. I suspect that if they can get FIM approval then Dibs, Browny and a few others will HAVE to turn up. As for other riders I believe the only way they could get it to work is to make it commercially viable for a set number of riders to turn out. Or basically put up prize money. And I don't see that happening in my lifetime!!! As I said earlier Westwood entry was OK but they could not fill all the available entries despite being right in the heartland of Trials and being pretty easy to get to for anybody else. I'll no doubt be at Westwood over the next couple of months and will have to see what they thought. Given the Support the main sponsor of this event has given Trials it will be interesting to see if they wish to continue or will stick to the World rounds from now on. Edited May 23, 2012 by Telecat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phb Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) Do you think the observers were instructed to 5 all riders for a split second stop at the BTC? If so all that would create is bad feeling. but isnt that the rules,!!!!! you must keep forward motion at all times, so if the observers were 5 ing riders who stopped for a split second, they were using the rules correctly. what amazess me is the importers seem to have decided to take it upon themselves to change sections at will, I always thought that this was the job of the CoC and the organising club, If as others have said is true about the Importers then the ACU need to sort out the IMPORTERS and listened to what the actual RIDERS want I wasnt at the trial and I have no interest in ever going to another BTC whilst this farce of Non-stop continues, Yorkshire centre voted in the Non-stop for Centre rounds and its not working very well there either, so what chance has our top riders got in the WTC I know of quite a few people who wont observer at centre trials anymore due to the No-stop rule and I am one of them, Edited May 23, 2012 by PHB 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabby Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 I bet there are loads of riders in Scotland reading this topic and thinking....What a bunch of fannies you lot are !! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breagh Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Ouch,another bullet from the Dbf gun is fired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telecat Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) I bet there are loads of riders in Scotland reading this topic and thinking....What a bunch of fannies you lot are !! Go on, what about?? Edited May 23, 2012 by Telecat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabtastic Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Have to say, even though I am a fan of no-stop, the Westwood round was to be honest, rubbish. The venue does not suit no-stop at all, just about everything artificial and man made. Also some of the observing was terrible and incosistent, people given cleans when stopping, and also people given fives even though they didnt stop! I also think that the organisers were trying to go the other way from the 1st round, which got critisised for being too easy, and therefore some of the sections were impossible no-stop, i feel just to take lots of marks through fives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Why did phil disney not ride? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamjayzee Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 some of the sections were impossible no-stop, i feel just to take lots of marks through fives. Just a question; were they totally impossible, or just impossible to ride clean? Could a tactical dab get the rider to the ends cards? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phb Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) Just a question; were they totally impossible, or just impossible to ride clean? Could a tactical dab get the rider to the ends cards? correct me if I am wrong but the sections should all be cleanable without a tatical dab, if you are forced to dab to get throught the section its not a non-stop style section Edited May 23, 2012 by PHB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamjayzee Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Debatable, I guess. The idea is to produce a winner (and get the majority of riders within a sensible band of scores). I don't personally think it matters if you cannot clean a section, as long as the section does not produce either all 5s or all 0s. If that's the case, it's too hard/ easy. I quite like a (no-stop) section that has a perfect line that may produce a clean if you are a god and all the other gods are smiling on you. You can go for the clean at the risk of a 5, or decide on a tactical dab. I wasn't there at this trial, but was interested to see if any sections fell into that category. The better guys usually aim for the clean, but stand to lose more; it's just the nature of the talented! If they genuinely were not rideable (as opposed to cleanable), then all the arguments stand! In any case, the opinions of those riding have to be taken seriously. My comment was purely out of interest... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gasgasjamie Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Firstly, before I go any further, I must point out I have not been to a BTC for a few years and so this is coming from an outsider and therefore should be taken as it. I have also observed when I can and laid out many a trial since I was young and so understand the amount of effort that is involved. I am fully for non-stop trials and have enjoyed riding non-stop events this year far more than the same type of events under the stop rules from previous years. Why do I think these have worked? Because the sections have been made to suit. Every section has been ride-able, cleanable but there has also been a lot of challenges. Winners have generally not been on low scores, last place have still managed to get cleans. But the main reason, I believe, for the trials working, is that whilst observers started off extremely strict in January, but they have now settled to a happy medium, where the emphasis is on trying to maintain forward movement, rather than looking for reasons to five riders. A stop is still a five, and riders know this; but quick hops on the go, a momentary pause before a step etc are allowed. Whilst you can argue that a stop is a stop, the idea of non-stop was to make sections more ride-able for the majority. How can anyone progress and sections be ridden with confidence when riders are worried about putting the front brake on for fear of getting a five. There has to be some common sense involved. The rule should penalise the rider who has messed up and got off line, but also allow for the more talented rider to show his full range of skills. From Ben's post, it seems that this was not the case at the weekend. Ben has ridden many trials non-stop this year, and so this is not a knee-jerk reaction and therefore should be listened to. I hope that, just like at my local trials, the observing evens itself out over time as observers get used to the rules. But with only 6 rounds, it hasn't got long to do it and it is along way for riders to go for a 'work in progress'. NB: With regards to importers changing the sections, they are obviously aware that the non-stop rules aren't to everyones liking, and so I am guessing they changed it (if that is what happened) to try and win over the critics. This had to be done with the best intentions in mind as the importers have a much to loose as anyone else with this, however it doesn't seem to have worked and lets hope that lessons are learnt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phb Posted May 24, 2012 Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 NB: With regards to importers changing the sections, they are obviously aware that the non-stop rules aren't to everyones liking, and so I am guessing they changed it (if that is what happened) to try and win over the critics. This had to be done with the best intentions in mind as the importers have a much to loose as anyone else with this, however it doesn't seem to have worked and lets hope that lessons are learnt but if the Importers did change the sections, without the organising club's / CoC permsission, they have absolutley NO right to do so, I set out quite a few trials within my club and I know I would be seriously p****d if someone came along and started changing the sections. If they did change them, then the ACU should take them to task and make sure it doesn happen again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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