125 National Championship

[nsaqam]

The AMA provide legitimacy most importantly. It also provides insurance I believe.

As for a stand alone C-ship, I don't have the experience or the deep pockets or the time to pull it off. Very few do. Which is precisely why I would like our present organization to do it. For my daughter, for the other fellows kids, and for the sport. If you feel it to be a bad idea you have the right to point out your concerns with your own proposal.

[alan bechard]

Finally Alan, if getting our youth to develop their skills through a system that parallels the system used in the rest of the trials world isn't the answer, what is? How would you propose we develop our future WTC champs? Or is a WTC champ not a worthy or attainable goal? If a WTC champ would not grow the sport in the US, how would you propose we grow the sport? Or is growth not a worthy or attainable goal?

Stagnant growth and impoverished importers may be the best that can be hoped for. I hope not!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What I would suggest if I had my way, would be that we support those that are out there doing the work and running the series.

I would suggest that we capitalize on our already existing class structures, that give the widest opportunity for youth to compete that I have seen.

I would suggest that we work hard to bring other new riders into the sport, that we concentrate these efforts initially on the MX / HS / enduro folks that are reaching my age (around 40) and do not want their children going through the broken bones etc. of MX. These folks understand the costs involved in a motorcycle sport.

I would suggest that we work at the local level, to develop the sport there, to have trials thriving at a local level, will elevate the sport at the upper levels. I would do this by forming a club for my local area, then doing my best to promote the sport in the local area and trying to attract new riders into the sport. (Just a small tidbit of info, I have never had a rider want to take up riding because of the WTC, Most just want something cool to do with their freinds.)

I would suggest that we try and unify clubs across the US into using the same class structure at the club level, and god forbid, the same set of rules.

I would suggest that we try and "regionalize" trials somewhat in the US so that a rider could progress from a "local" to a "regional" to a "US" championship.

I would suggest that we work to make sure that all the kids that would like to participate in the YN have the opportunity, that they have the financial resources to do that, and the summer camp that goes with it.

I believe that the way to WTC finishes for the US is the ability to get young riders together, training, riding, joking and having a good time togeteher, then pushing one upmanship and "I can do that and you cant" on to the next level and I believe that the US youths will move forward in the WTC standings.

Hmmmmm,,,, probably a bunch I missed, but that should give you something to throw back at me.

Some other thoughts, you keep referring to making money for the importers, dealers, this comes from the working guy buying a bike and going out and playing on it. Go out and ask, how many folks bought bikes because of WTC stuff (or GNCC or MX etc) I believe that you will find that most folks, just like trials folks, bought bikes, and do the sport for the fun of it. Not to be World Champ. You want to help those guys, go out and form a club and get some new riders riding.

Oh,,, and a final PS. Having my kid be a WTC rider is not my goal, nor for a matter of fact(and more importantly) either of my kids goals at this point. Me spending some quality time with my kids was why I got back into trials when they came of age, and they could be around the group of folks that trials tends to attract. I believe that you will find that the "norm" for riders from any country.

[sirhc]

Wow, twelve pages and still going strong. This reminds me of the abortion debate,everyboby gets all wound up takes a side then it gets personnel and in the end it doesn't effect that many people.

O.K. here is opinion that I'm sure nobody cares about.

We should have 125 classes. Sportsman,EX-Spotsman and Expert. If we need it later also a 125 Pro. Phase it in, the first two years they are open to all ages while we keep the youth classes we have. Then after the two years they would be our youth classes. The classes would be small at first but, they would get bigger, I mean when they made the women's ex class they had to know it would only have two girls.

Phasing it in would give everybody time to get one since I believe most people riding nationals get a new bike at least every two years especially the kids since they are hard on bikes Those that ride the nationals also tend to buy new bikes so a shortage of bikes shouldn't be a problem. This would also give people time to get used to it and adjust since people tend to not always like change.

This would be more classes for a few years but,just go every 10 years on the SR classes and if not what does nine more trophies cost for two years or is that how we got so many classes, everybody kept saying that?

I just think this is the best thing for our kids in the long run Maybe I am just being selfish so I don't have to hear my kid whining that he will have to stay on one when Johnny is on a 280

After saying that I don't think this is any golden road to world domination, as others have stated it takes money, parents willing to sacrifice, good riders all togther,teachers teaching them the right way to ride from here and Europe and I don't even know what else. Even if you have all that it takes a kid that wants nothing more than to ride and work on riding and want it worse than anybody else. I know for my seven year old as good as I like to think he is and as much as he likes riding given the choice he would rather go fishing with Grandpa and that's just cool with me.

On the flip side I know this could be hard on the kid that gets the hand me down bike from Dad or somthing but, that kid can ride the Sportsman class and they seem to be about the same as far as scores go. For the Y.N. it should stay open because they don't have that chance and we don't want to keep anybody out.

O.K. I've said it.

[nsaqam]

Alan, thanks for your response. I like the local, regional,and national structure.

I also like getting involved at the local level.

I don't believe that I like the idea of supporting the NATC with the emphasis they presently place on Sportsman riders. I don't think the system is designed to produce World Class talent. I think their record shows that it doesn't produce the best. I think they should be focused on the youth and on producing World Class riders and not providing me a good time.

As for the WTC not inspiring folks to take up the sport or buying bikes I don't agree with that at all. I bought 2 bikes and am about to buy a third, HATR bought 2 bikes and his brother bought 1. All as a direct result of seeing a WTC event. Will we ever be World Class? No way! Will my daughter or sons, and HATR's boys? Possibly. They have the time and the youthful energy, they have parents who will support them, they have a love for the WTC events and the riders. My daughter says she wants to take Laia's crown from her.

I think we should try to unify clubs and the rules they operate under, I just think that those rules be designed to produce top talent and not geriatric men grinning.

We both share a desire to see the sport grow, we just have different ideas as to how that will happen. I think excellence breeds interest.

sirhc, I like your post and fully agree that a 125 NC isn't the only piece missing from the US trials scene needed to win at the WTC level. But it's a start. We need a commitment to excellence and I think we're getting there with the TTC and the ITS youth programs. We just need our governing body to share the desire for excellence and do everything in its power to bring excellence about.

[mich lin]

Man, your really tough on me Alan! If I'm not mistaken you have called me a liar several times but hey, that's your right to say whatever pops into your head. I'd also like to reserve the right to disagree with you.

I will agree with you Alan on the standardization of rules, classes and section marking nationwide. That's an important step foreward that somebody needs to make for the sport.

It appeared that there was great hope for the new national trials organization put together by the importers and the TCC staff to do this. There hasn't been any movement there yet, maybe later the new trials organization can make this happen? We do agree there bud!

I've got to agree with a lot of points made here about the 125cc national title. It must start somewhere, contested on some line and be pushed in some direction from the get go.

The proposal presented to the NATC was the prelimary qualifying event be run on the sportsmen line to start with. I thought that was stated clearly time and time again.

Then the top 5 riders contest the finals sections of world championship caliber while the rest of the field becomes part of the gallery. So to repeat the answer to the line question, SPORTSMEN LINE first, then the finals on 125cc world championship caliber sections for the top 5. Now if there is only 2 riders entered, everyone rides the world class sections. Got it?

To clarify another point, I'm not allowed at the NATC meeting unless I'm the SoCal NATC rep. Bill Markem fills that position and he does an amazing job at it.

I agree with the statement that the NATC system has had 30 years to create another American world champion. It would have developed another world champion by now if it could but it didn't. It took Debbie Evans coming out of an 18 year retirement to be the first US rider since the mid 1980s to score FIM world championship points. That was in Spain, the year was 2000! Where was all the NATC world beaters and FIM points scorers since Ryan Young in 1985 Alan?

If left as is, the NATC series will never create another world champion. The proff is right under everyone's nose. Why are we not entering the best of the best American riders at the US world round coming up? If the current system could bring World championship success, why are the US's best riders riding down a class in the Jr world championship? There is proof positive that the exsisting system will not produce another world champion without a move to standardization of NATC trials with the rest of the world.

[mich lin]

Undisputed facts about trials

*Trials will not become the next BIG sport! That's never been my goal. My hope is to have the US sport as large as it is in GB.

* Anyone with any sense knows that a young rider must be on a 125cc machine to impact the 125cc world championship.

* The 125cc world championship is the stepping stone to the World Wide One, which is the open class world trials championship.

* Young US riders need a reason to stay on a 125cc machine when all his friends are contesting the NATC nationals with the advantage of a full size bike. The 125cc national championship gives a rider that reason to stay back on a 125cc bike until the FIM allows him onto a bigger machine.

* Training camps, one upsmanship and riding together by great riders will always help improve the riding level. Simply common sense, not a statigic plan!

* The ideas exchanged and worked through here DO MATTER! There is not time at the NATC meeting for real debates or to run a think tank. Here on Trials central ideas either sink or swim in the arena of ideas. SO THIS IS REALLY WHERE THE FUTURE BEGINS.

* I like Alan but it makes me mad when he calls me a liar!

Edited April 19, 2006 by Mich Lin

[atomant]

So, back to my question ? whos gonna get off their ass and make it happen ?

[perce]

So, back to my question ? whos gonna get off their ass and make it happen ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fiver it's not Lane.

[the artist formerly known as ish]

I'm going to fold, I only have a pair of sevens, I'm sure Lane is bluffing and he's holding a hand full of crap as usual

[atomant]

I know this thread has a serious side but the entertainment value has been priceless

[nsaqam]

I surely intend to do my part by helping to rewrite Lanes proposal and helping to educate the presenter if the presenter isn't going to be Lane. I'll also help by researching how the European youth system has worked if that is deemed helpful.

I've stated before that I'd do whatever is within my capability to do to shift the focus onto our youth and excellence on the World stage.

I'm excited to get going!

[nsaqam]

Apparently taking shots at Lane is a popular sport around here.

I haven't seen any other proposals put forward that address our pathetic lack of participation in World Class trials. Nevermind winning the WTC, I'd like to see an American battle for 5th place at this point.

The NATC hasn't produced a viable WTC contender for 2 decades at least. Their "PRO" class has 5 competitors. Anytime a European competes in our Nationals they win the title like Ahvala and Crosset did.

I don't know Lane and I don't know his history but I do know that he shares my desire to have Americans competing for wins against the best. That's enough for me!

I am anxiously awaiting any other ideas to achieve the ends I think the NATC should seek.

For that matter I'd like hear if you all don't think that the NATC should strive for the goals I've stated. And why?

[barcota]

Bernie managed to win the WTC without a 125cc class. How about Dougie, Fuji, or Raga or any of our previous WTC champions. If the skill, determination and results are demonstrated on a regular basis there exists the potential to be the world champion. I honestly believe that the main reason there have not been any candidates for so many years is the fact that most young people understand that the attainment of a good education is far more important. Very few can make a living from the sport so the education provides them with life long opportunities and trials can be enjoyed as a pastime. Most mature younger people who engage in the sport realize this. It is usually the dads who push their kids to attain whatever they couldn't do in their own youthful years - are you listening Lane? We should all redirect our priorities in life and inspire in the kids what in life is most important. Trials is not a life long occupation it is a sport of fun after completing a well rounded education for a life long career.

[alan bechard]

I am anxiously awaiting any other ideas to achieve the ends I think the NATC should seek.

For that matter I'd like hear if you all don't think that the NATC should strive for the goals I've stated. And why?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmmm, let me try again, who's goals are these? And you want who to do it?

Because that is what you feel is important, does not make that what everyone feels is important.

Do I think the NATC should strive for your goal? I think the NATC should strive for their goal. Have you read their mission statement? Have you spoken to anyone that sit's on the NATC board? Have you reviewed their website, do you KNOW (not what Lane tells you by the way) what the NATC goals are?

Would it be nice to have WTC competitors? sure, would I love to see some US folks at the WTC level, absolutely, but that is not my end goal.

If that is truly what your goal is, I would suggest that you hook up with a rising star, or stars and do your absolute best to make sure that they have the backing to get there. Whether your expertise is in publicity, minding, mechaincing or whatever, I am sure there are several folks that would welcome your assistance.

Hope it works out well for you.

Hope you can make it too the WR coming up in a month. Seems that would be the place to start in any endeavor that was to end in a WTC.

[nsaqam]

In the last sentence that you quoted I asked that if you don't think that the NATC should strive for WTC winners, why? Anyone out there can disagree with my preference but tell me why we shouldn't strive for the top.

Yes, I have reviewed the NATC website. Yes, I have talked to a diplomat to the NATC. Yes, I do know what the stated goals of the NATC are.

I also know that we haven't produced WTC level talent for 2 decades. The proof is right there, the present system produces only mediocre talent. Has for years yet there seems to be no drive to change the system even in the face of this undeniable fact.

As for picking some rising talent, I have 3 rising talents living under my roof. I will perform all those functions that you mentioned and many others besides. So don't tell me that I should support some other guys kids if their parents nor their trials organization will. That being said though, I'd happily help writing sponsorship proposals and submitting them if I were to be asked. I'd gladly donate the use of my land and my equipment to help kids train. I'd gladly supervise this training whenever possible. I'd gladly wrench on their bikes if that was required. I'd do anything in my capacity to help some rising talent make it to the top. I just wish that the NATC felt the same as I do and be willing to do whatever these youngsters required to reach the very top. Grown men and women don't need the support that is presently thrown their way by the NATC. Our youngsters need much more. Grown men and women don't cry with joy when they take home a trophy. Our youngsters do. I know which one I'd rather see.