gasgasteve Posted May 8, 2006 Report Share Posted May 8, 2006 Hi hope someone can help me out having trouble with little lads 50. Starts fine from cold but as soon as its warmed up, and he falls off and lays it down on the floor i have trouble starting it again. I've cleaned the carb out, put new float and needle valve and it's a bit better but still having to turn off the fuel and kick it till it's cleaned the excess fuel. Any advise appreciated Thanks Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobster Posted May 8, 2006 Report Share Posted May 8, 2006 out of interest do you have to use choke when you start it from cold or can you get away with nothing & does it start easily (i.e. only a couple of prods) when cold? our rookie 80 behaves like yours when dropped/stalled - I think it's because it runs chronically rich at low revs. You could always do an experiment - something along the lines of: ride it around 'normally' for a trials bike i.e. slowly. Take the plug out (probably v sooty). Put another plug in, ride around again, but this time 'fall over' or just lay it on its side until it stops. Now try this 1) try a couple of prods. If no start, change the plug for the old sooty plug 2) try a couple of kicks . 3)If no start put in a new or clean plug & try again. My guess is this will happen 1) hopefully it won't start i.e you've replicated your problem 2) still no start 3) it will start immediately. I reckon they run soo ruch at low revs that if stalled the plug is nearly fouled i.e. v sooty, hence is difficult to start. Only a clean/new plug will produce an instant start. I hope this is of some help, but I would suggest you either get more air into the engine (i.e only very lightly oil the air filter) or/and less fuel in. Phew that's it. Good luck, and beware, this is only my opinion and I have been wrong before.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted May 8, 2006 Report Share Posted May 8, 2006 My son's bike was the same way always a pain to start once warmed up..The only way I would get it to start was to hold the throttle wide open, then it would usually start after a few good kicks.It also worked better to put it in neutral first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gasgasteve Posted May 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2006 Thanks Tobster Yes i do have to use a choke when it's cold, starts great. Just getting my head around your experiment, i will give it a try. Air filte rsounds like a good idea and how do i regulate the fuel flow in? Got to the stage now i'm willing to try anything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gasgasteve Posted May 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2006 Thanks sirhc Thats how im starting it now but it take longer and is more tiring kicking his 50 than my 321 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mezzer Posted May 8, 2006 Report Share Posted May 8, 2006 Hello GGSteve, Same problems with my sons 2000. I now run an irridium spark plug in it, a little expensive but the plug does'nt foul and also gives a better spark even with the weaker ignition system. So far seems better. Mezzer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsdad Posted May 8, 2006 Report Share Posted May 8, 2006 Hi Steve. Ours was just the same as yours. Whilst visiting a trials shop in Cornwall the guy there suggested a diamond tip plug. (Have I got that right?). Which certianly improved things. Also found that holding the throttle fully open was the only way to start it. I never oiled the filter, but did take it out and clean it after every trial. Always carried several new plugs and usualy walked with a limp !!! Brilliant little bike despite the above. Have now moved on to a Beta Rev 80, which is a brilliant bike for those kids not yet big enough for 125. Good luck, Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobster Posted May 9, 2006 Report Share Posted May 9, 2006 Steve Would I be right in saying that adjusting your fuel screw has no effect? Have you tried proving to yourself that the engine is indeed running rich at low revs - I did this by doing plug chops at the various throttle settings. I found all of my middle to upper throttle settings to be spot on, but those at low revs were v rich. Try Mathew Cooper at Eurocarb (Dellorto dealer) for some good advice and excellent parts availability. To try and lean it out I only very very lightly oil the air filter (and would certainly never recommend running the filter dry) & also spray the inside of the air box with filter oil to catch any dust that gets through. I haven't tried the world of the exotic spark plug, but it does sound to work and is certainly a very cheap try, BUT it clearly won't solve the rich running, just mask the symptom. So I would and have tried to solve the problem and not effect a 'bodge'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gasgasteve Posted May 9, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2006 hi I've phoned Matt Cooper at Euro Carb. Nice bloke, very helpful. he thinks the needle hieght may need moving up. If that doesn't help, idle jet may be too big. Will let you know how i get on Thanks again Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted May 9, 2006 Report Share Posted May 9, 2006 usualy walked with a limp !!! That sounds way too familiar, wore out the sole of my boot starting his bike. Got him a Beta 80 and now he can start it easy I always thought it was too rich on the bottom end but, nobody carried jets that small for the bike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyp884 Posted May 10, 2006 Report Share Posted May 10, 2006 Steve, A few ideas for you. My son has a 2000 model GG 50. I bought the bike from the second owner in 2004. It was very hard to start cold. Wide Open throttle helped for sure. Well, not our bike starts 2nd kick almost everytime. I installed a Bosch Platinum sparkplug WR9DP Stock # 4220 gap .020. I cut the lid of the airbox as per the GG USA website suggestions to allow more air into the carb. I use No Toil air filter oil. BIG IMPROVEMENT!!! Now, you did not ask, but the BEST performance mod for the GG 5o is to add at least 5 teeth to the rear sprocket. You can special order a sprocket in the USA from Sprocket Sopecialists at 800-782-8200. And the price is less than the stock sprocket would cost from GG. Of course, you'll need to add a few links to the chain. But WELL worth it!!!! The next best mod was to beg borrow or steal a pair of 2 ply Hutchins or Vee Rubber tires and burn those 4 ply Cheng Shins! When your installing the 2 ply tires, install a thick heavy duty inner tube. Tony Powers Charlotte, NC Tony P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyp884 Posted May 10, 2006 Report Share Posted May 10, 2006 I'm sorry, I meant to say the bike was very hard to start HOT.Before our modifications. Tony P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobster Posted May 11, 2006 Report Share Posted May 11, 2006 Tony - do you really run your bike with a dry air filter??? How do you stop dust getting into the engine? Obviously if you run the bike without a properly installed & unoiled air filter it will run leaner, therefore 'curing' the rich problem, but surely this is not a very good fix, more a bodge? You've just moved the problem to another area??? Also, have you got a link for that GG airbox modification as that does sound interesting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gasgasteve Posted May 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2006 hi ive moved the clip up on the needle its a lot better . am going to try it without the airbox lid on this weekend dont think ill try the filter unoiled though if u get the gg link tobster lets us know plz steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyp884 Posted May 11, 2006 Report Share Posted May 11, 2006 Tobster, I would NEVER run ANY bike with a dry air filter. I use a filter oil / filter cleaning system called "NO Toil" No toil meaning I guess "no toil" or easy to clean". Go to : http://www.notoil.com/ As for the link to airbox modification, I cannot find it now, but I printed it out for my files: "Trim interior square hole in airbox lid to enlarge into a rectangular shape. Also trim at a 45 degree angle, the outer top intake area of the lid. This modification makes a noticeable difference in throttle response, and improves stock jetting". Tony P Charlotte, NC USA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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