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#16 popmonkey69

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 05:24 PM

Yeah I downloaded the Sherco mixture ratio list and it had a big yellow bar running through 60:1

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Edited by popmonkey69, 15 May 2012 - 06:59 PM.

I've had lots of gear..........But never any idea............

#17 copemech

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 03:30 AM

Thats all good if you are running the roads as in SSDT, but too much for putting. I can easily run up to 100:1 for putting. You see it all accumulates in the motor and exhaust if they are not running at higher revs.

And even at those ratios, you still need to rev them out periodically with a good run to blow out the crap.

Do as you like, but excess is not your friend here!
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#18 copemech

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 03:35 AM

I'm running my Sherco 250 at 95ml to 5 litres of fuel. As I've just done main bearings after one of the cages disintergrated I'm a bit weary about going any weaker on the mix. The new main bearings are fully sealed wheras the ones that came out were open so atleast the new ones dont need the fuel / oil mix for lube.

After putting it all back together with new mains, piston, barrel replated it started on the 7th kick and sounded lovely with a nice 2T pop exhaust note. After the first trial something started to sound rattley. Not had chance to investigate yet but beleive this sound (top end rattle sound???) can be normal for even new Sherco's? Its really pronounced when you let off the throttle or pull the clutch in. With this in mind I do wonder if the mix is strong enough as the Sherco handbook (sheet of paper) says 50:1


Some rattle is simply normal, More oil is not going to change that.
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#19 joeninety

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 06:58 AM

Thanks for your input. Think I will defo change to 60:1 mix. Might alternate between 60:1 & 70:1 depending on the trial and how long the runs are between sections etc. I also think practice riding is more tough on the motor as your running for longer period of time whereas at events it stop start riding.

Cheers.

#20 copemech

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 02:33 AM

Do as you like then. I keep telling peeps they don't need all that oil and it is a waste of money and worse for the bike and the environment. You must understend and accept that the modern synthetics are not your dads old oil!

Just how often do you rev the crap out of a trials bike anyway?

OK, nuff said. Here is an example of one oil producer that is willing to put their product and reputation to the test. I just need to call them and ask if they can make it smell like bean oil!


http://www.amsoil.co...efront/atp.aspx
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#21 joeninety

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 10:10 AM

I don't think its a case of 'do as you like then', its just trtyng to get a balanced view on opinions. The bottom line is Sherco recommend 60:1, your mentioning upto 100:1, some folks in the local club are on 50:1, others mention 70 or 80:1 etc. I realise oils are getting better all the time and your link was very interesting. When I spoke to MRS after I had main crank bearings fail one of his questions to me was did I have oil in the petrol and how much, I said 55:1 to which he replied thats fine.

After much consideration I think i will give 70:1 a try. I just can't help being a bit wary after having the crankcases split for new bearings and the barrel replated and new piston... dont want to have to do it all again anytime soon!

Cheers.

Edited by JoeNinety, 17 May 2012 - 03:01 PM.



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#22 popmonkey69

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 11:52 AM

Do as you like then. I keep telling peeps they don't need all that oil and it is a waste of money and worse for the bike and the environment. You must understend and accept that the modern synthetics are not your dads old oil!

Just how often do you rev the crap out of a trials bike anyway?

OK, nuff said. Here is an example of one oil producer that is willing to put their product and reputation to the test. I just need to call them and ask if they can make it smell like bean oil!


http://www.amsoil.co...efront/atp.aspx



'Do as you like then'.......

That's usually the way it works after you've listened to a few opinions isn't it ?

I'm going 70:1

If someone is unsure and asking for advice, it's just for an opinion

I am very grateful for any advice given (as I started this topic)

JoeNinety also thanked everyone, but If he or anyone else doesn't take it, its no skin off your nose ?

Surely we both are erring on the side of caution, my bike has only just had a replate and piston too Joe
I've had lots of gear..........But never any idea............

#23 copemech

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 03:15 AM

I don't think its a case of 'do as you like then', its just trtyng to get a balanced view on opinions. The bottom line is Sherco recommend 60:1, your mentioning upto 100:1, some folks in the local club are on 50:1, others mention 70 or 80:1 etc. I realise oils are getting better all the time and your link was very interesting. When I spoke to MRS after I had main crank bearings fail one of his questions to me was did I have oil in the petrol and how much, I said 55:1 to which he replied thats fine.

After much consideration I think i will give 70:1 a try. I just can't help being a bit wary after having the crankcases split for new bearings and the barrel replated and new piston... dont want to have to do it all again anytime soon!

Cheers.




I am not trying to bash you lads in any way, as you ask honest questions and need good info.

There was a fairly recent poll taken on this website a while back, and as I recall the majority of respondents were on 80:1 ratio of the oil of their choosing. And most nowadays run full synthetics it seems, with a few still wanting the semi- blends, prolly ok still.

I do still think there are a lot that actually over oil, and even myself a bit because I think I could easily go to a bit higher ratios for my riding and I have in the past without issue.

One of the big problems with trials bikes and their usage in an average riding environment for most seems the fact they do indeed accumulate oil too much and then the intermittant use with shutting off at sections, one does not maintain sufficient heat in the exhaust to keep the grunge flowing.

I would add the point it seems to me that most failures of trials engines are not neccessarily oil related, reguardless of quantity, yet more along the lines of mud and dirt entry to the motor and the resultant abraision effect of the crud! Yes that stuff will lay up in the motor as well and become a grinding paste!

All too often, poor air filter maintenance and water washthrough of dirt takes its toll on poorly maintained or improperly prepped bikes. Keeping the crud out is thusly much more important than the oil.

Even the best open pored foam air filter is only capable of removing large debris! I am not really sure the exact numbers on this, yet as example one may associate something like a rate of removing 80% of particles of 10 microns or so in size. So the fine abrasives still make their way, reguardless!

Ok, so much for my lesson of the day, get on with it!


Cheers,
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#24 popmonkey69

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 05:03 AM

Cheers copemech
I've had lots of gear..........But never any idea............

#25 joeninety

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 12:42 PM

I agree that keeping the crap out is probably more important. I think air cleaner and boxes on most if not all trials bikes are of a poor design generally and could be much improved. I now put a peice of fine mesh over the foam air cleaner to stop any large debris getting so far as I would quite often find leaf debris in the foam filter, this seems to definately help.

I ran at 65:1 at the weekend and it seemed to run very nicely, easy starting, no strange noises so might try 70:1 at the next event. Don'y think I'll be going any leaner that.

Cheers for all your help and advice.

Gary.

#26 zippy

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 12:16 PM

I am running 80:1 with the Amsoil. Love the stuff.
I did dump my bike in a creek once........ sucked in much silt and other crap. ran it for 2 yrs like that and it rattled like a bag of rocks.
I have since then replaced crank bearings and seals and new piston, rings and replated matching cylinder. still running the 80:1 and the occaisonall "blow out" of the exhaust is needed.
(crap it sounds like I am agreeing with Copemech, oh my the end of the world is nigh!! :D )
but if you want to err on the side of caution and run more oil that's fine just make sure your jetting is all set up for it so you get enough fuel to make the bang! More oil = less on the fuel.

Just my opinions.

Have fun riding!!!!!!! that is what it is all about.
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#27 neo

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 01:10 PM

Honestly with Fully Synthetic Oil you must run grater than 80:1....all the other ratios are for crappy non or semi synthetics oils.

Cope and Zippy know their stuff and I've personally run 80:1 for over 5 years now and for 4 of those years I practically rode every day.

I've seen the effects of too much oil in the exhaust port, header pipe and muffler. It an't a pretty site, it makes the bike run like crap and it's a hell of a job to clean up too.


All the best.
Neo
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TRIALS....It's not life or death....It's much more serious than that!!

#28 copemech

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 03:50 AM

I have said this for quiet some time, and at time goes, it has proven true. We here run 80:1 in the Pro bikes without issue!!!!! You think you need more?


I intend to open up this issue to others in the general forum as well. Here is a snippit form an oil engineer at Maxima as example. Folk do not understand what is going on here with respect to oil migration time! Basically, it all just lays up in there untill it is revved out!

Get down to this quote from an oil engineer at Maxima and go figure!

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#29 neo

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 05:21 AM

I like it ... nice one Cope :thumbup:
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