As well as knowing the rules, it is probably advisable to get a feel for the local culture in how they are applied.
As a rider I see competitors get away with all sorts of things which if I was observing would be a five. This seems to work because everyone "knows" what is generally acceptable, although it may not accord with what the rule book says. I've even got observers to correct the score they were going to give me on a couple of occasions as, where I'd fived a section about three times over in one attempt, they were going to give me a three because I'd "tried so hard" and eventually got my wheel spindle past the ends cards.
Observing at the Scottish would be great, I'm sure you'd have a ball. However, if I was doing it I'd probably risk being "relieved of my duties" as for me a stop is a stop and gets five marks in the observers book.
Having said all that I do recognise that observers do an invaluable job and it's probably me at fault if I object to them being a bit "kind" on occasion, especially if they do the same for everyone else.
Quite a find. I think it's a standard type 125 Sprite trials, from the 1968-71 period. The Goldfinger, which had a metalflake gold paint job on the tank, was I recall an attempt to make a trail bike version of the model (consisting of little more than fitting lights and a larger seat) to compete with bikes of the time such as the Bantam Bushman and Suzuki Trail Cat.
Hi Dan, Thanks for your reply. My TY is good - just a standard bike but it takes me back to when I was 35 years younger, and I had a class win in my first outing on it two weeks ago.
In the days when I was riding my original TY175, the 348 Montesas and 325 Bultos were becoming dominant, and (not that I ever actually knew him) it was quite inspiring to read in most weeks' T&M News that Pete Oakley was winning on his TY in East Midland Centre trials. Great days, and it's good to hear Pete Oakley is still active.
I certainly remember Pete Oakley riding the TY 175 in the Scottish and other big trials, mid 1970s. Very tidy rider always well turned out, as I recall his bike was pretty much standard. From memory he often rode with a brother also? By coincidence I tried googling his name the other day as I've recently bought a TY175 and thought I might revive some memories, but couldn't find any references or photos.
For me, this topic raises the question of what, exactly, changes to prevent a champion continuing to win indefinitely.
Given that these essential qualities might be the prime requirements, it's hard to see why performance should drop off:
Determination/hunger - Dougie still has this in spadefuls I'm sure
Motivation - see above - he still likes to ride his bike every day
Ability - he always had it before, so why not now?
Fitness - surely Dougie's fitness is still up to the mark: anyone see him struggling at a trial? (especially the Scottish which would find out any shortfalls)
Sure, there's something about ageing which takes its toll, even slightly, but hard to put a finger on it.
Good point, plus Thorpey gave away a bit of time from his trials career when he spent some time scrambling as he decided there was a bob or two to be made in that game.
Going off subject a little I know, but Nigel Birkett's record in the Scottish brings me to think who might have ridden most trials of any type in their lifetime. I would think Dave Thorpe is a likely contender, he's probably competed most weekends for about 45 years!
As far as I know thew oldest one day trial in UK is the Reliance Cup which was first run by the South Liverpool club in 1911, so not quite as long a history as the Scottish.
Time was when any interest in motorbikes led to buying Motor Cycle News or, going back a while, Motor Cycle. These weeklies always contained considerable coverage of trials back then (in the 60s and 70s). So having an interest in bikes in general led to an introduction to trials. Wouldn't happen now 'cos MCN completely ignores trials and the young lad or lass with a general interest in bikes probably wouldn't buy, or even find, a copy of TMX.
Nothing to be alarmed about: Fantic 200s were known for this. Used to start turning backwards without warning, causing merriment among those watching. Letting the cluth out for a rapid take-off with your back to a cliff was always good for laugh if the engine had decided to start running backwards while you were in the queue at a section.
I do recall Mick Andrews advocating practising on higher tyre pressures to improve skill development, and in competition (on low pressures) everything will feel easier so boosting your confidence. Mind you, that was 40 years ago.
I enjoyed Shirty's article giving an inside view of the recent contract moves at WTC level. Taking his comment that the top 5 are on good money, and the rest aren't, is anyone prepared to say what the ball-park figures might be these days? Trials obviously involves as much commitment and risk as any other sport, and the period of maximum earning potential is probably about the same as many others (around ten years at the most for the majority of competitors?) so it would be interesting to see how the rewards compare. I suspect trials riders are relatively under-paid, simply because the sport isn't awash with money like some others.
I know I stand to be shot down as, like in any line of business, income is rightly seen as confidential - just asking out of interest.
Don't have any experience of a 239cc Fantic but I know that French market bikes were under 240cc as their tax laws meant that buying/running a bike over 240cc became quite a bit more expensive some time in the 70s. The 238 Bultaco Sherpa was, I think, the first example of bikes made to fit with the French tax situation.
On the question of Nigel Birkett's run of SSDT starts, I may be wrong but I recall that his first was in 1971, on a 128cc Suzuki. I was at Gorgie Market in Edinburgh to see the start that morning and remember the guy next to him in the start line-up asking if he was sure he was old enough to have a driving licence.
If I'm right that makes 39 starts (and finishes) allowing for there being no trial in the year of foot-and-mouth disease.
Next in line I believe is Rob Griffiths who was matching Birkett until he stopped riding the trial after, I think, the 2008 event.
I would guess the rider with the next highest number of starts would probably be Dave Thorpe, who would have ridden from the late sixties until mid 2000s?
No complaint from me about the 4RT, as I say it's probably too good for me!
I will agree it's unnecessarily loud though, for what's a beautifully mellow booming round the local woods to a 4T enthusiast is a damnable racket to Joe Public.
That, however, is a whole different issue. To get back to the point of the original post, yes the 4RT has probably had its highest moment of popularity, but its done a lot to add variety, interest and viable choice to the trials scene.
Not the best way to explain it, it does grip but you have to learn how it does it, believe me its nothing like a 2 stroke, ride it like that and it won't, too many spat the dummy out on 4rt's after a matter of weeks and did'nt learn how it grips
Yes, I'm sure you're right, in fact I seem to remember someone called Lampkin there that day who could make it grip on anything, riding one-handed. Just that I couldn't ride it for toffee - the bike was clearly way too good for me and given my lack of skill I doubt I'd ever have been comfortable with it.
If you've ridden a 4rt once and not liked it then you have no right to comment here - fact!!!.
If you've owned one for 6 months or more and don't like it or had had bad experience then carry on adding to this post.
Having ridden Monts relatively successful over the last 10 years plus, the 4rt is a different beast and you need to own one to make any valid comment.
They are maybe not the best to hop and flick but given a proper trial they are still very good - best bike i have ridden in SSDT. Flattered my ability!!!!.
Trouble is lots of people think they are Raga or Dabil and buy world champ class bikes when they are club champ riders at best - I think the demands are like chalk and cheese. John Lampkin has said the 200cc Beta is probably a superb clubman bike but probably sells few -the 4rt I thinks is a bit like this. Set it up right, learn to ride it and you have a very competitive reliable trials bike - just not fashionable
I went along to a 4RT test day in North Yorkshire three or four years ago. My usual bike is a Sherco, and I couldn't make anything of the Montesa. It was raining and the test was on a grassy hillside; just kept spinning out all over the place. Wayne Braybrook was on hand to show what the bike could do and his comment was "you've got to ride it with extra care, it doesn't grip that well."
Thanks very much, I thought, that's all I needed to know. Still riding Sherco.
Observing - How To Get Started?
in UK Trials Talk
Posted
As well as knowing the rules, it is probably advisable to get a feel for the local culture in how they are applied.
As a rider I see competitors get away with all sorts of things which if I was observing would be a five. This seems to work because everyone "knows" what is generally acceptable, although it may not accord with what the rule book says. I've even got observers to correct the score they were going to give me on a couple of occasions as, where I'd fived a section about three times over in one attempt, they were going to give me a three because I'd "tried so hard" and eventually got my wheel spindle past the ends cards.
Observing at the Scottish would be great, I'm sure you'd have a ball. However, if I was doing it I'd probably risk being "relieved of my duties" as for me a stop is a stop and gets five marks in the observers book.
Having said all that I do recognise that observers do an invaluable job and it's probably me at fault if I object to them being a bit "kind" on occasion, especially if they do the same for everyone else.