Tillerman6

At the risk of kicking this subject to death- If I put in a full liter of gearcase oil after draining it all out, the dipstick shows an overfull condition- even after running the bike for hours. The oil is about an inch above the top mark on the dipstick even with my modified drain plug which allows oil to level between both sides of the clutch wall. So I am wondering - this is probably soaking up horsepower that could be useful at the back wheel, engine responsiveness and easier engine starts if the clutch was not half immersed in oil. So to me- I've got conflicting information- the book and the marks on the case say to put in 1 liter, but the dipstick says that's too much- even with the modified drain plug that allows self leveling. What could it hurt to bring the levels down to the upper line on the dip stick? Opinions?

Jon-v8- Glad to see that we are thinking alike- that's what I ordered today! Thanks!

Guys- I took off all the lights and fitted a set of Domino grips and throttle assembly on the bars- for those of you who have gone this route- what is a good replacement for the kill switch assembly? I don't want a lanyard situation as I don't think it's necessary for my riding style. Any ideas?

I did get CMSNL to send me the right piston and I have the bike running now- still breaking it in slowly but all seems fine so far- fingers crossed- they said that the promotions on here cannot be corrected- third party advertisers and such- long train of custody once an ad is paid for and published.

Feetupfun- well after all this oil draining, measuring and pulling off the clutch cover- and with the aid of your advice, I have discovered two things about the oil level on the dip stick. #1 - The oil drain plug is built so that it sits between the gearbox compartment and the clutch compartment, and because it is made with about 15 threads, when installed, it blocks off any oil moving between the clutch and the gearbox- that is oil that is at the bottom of the gear and clutch housings. There is another thru hole further up the wall that separates the two compartments, but for it to pass oil, the engine would have to be running. The splash of the clutch would throw oil up and into the gearbox compartment until it could not scavenge any more oil from the supply that was there when the oil was first filled. Whatever was left in the clutch housing area would not circulate with the rest of the oil until the oil was drained again. #2- Because of your input- you gave us pictures of the dipstick on your bike and it showed the oil to be more or less at the upper limit mark on the stick. So for whatever reason- you have better circulation between the clutch housing and the gearbox compartment. This is hard to explain assuming that the engine cases are identical, and I cannot see any evidence from any source - Ebay pics, your pics, or my own inspections that show another hole low down on the wall. So this only leaves one possibility- either the drain plug you have installed is different than mine, or the casting itself is different to allow the oil at the bottom to flow freely back and forth. And since I am not in the mood to tear down the engine again to chase this down I decided to make a shorter drain plug. This creates a path for the oil at the bottom of the cases that does not depend on the splash of the clutch assembly to flood the gearbox with oil. The new plug has only 4 threads above the gasket instead of 15 on the original plug. The plug size and thread pitch is 14 x 1.5mm and I was able to buy a bolt at the hardware store to fabricate my own replacement drain plug. I also made a nylon washer which is sealed from behind with non- hardening gasket maker cement to make sure there are no leaks. If you or anyone has any more input on this, I would be glad to answer any questions. P.S. - I have been on Facebook at the TY owner's and appreciation group and I have gotten word that this "overfull" condition is not unheard of- at least two others on there have said they have the same problem. I think my solution is fairly easy to do, and it will probably make everyone's bike start a lot easier- seeing as how the clutch will not be 50% covered up with oil.

Got the bike running today- Hurray! It has the short drain plug I made today in it- There is enough room above the drain plug to allow some oil to pass over it into the gearbox. But warming it up just basically slung oil everywhere inside the clutch housing, so you have to wipe off the stick to get a reading of course- the level still looks high- about 1/2" above the top mark on the stick.

That's right!! I was expecting another thru the wall hole somewhere, but that appears to be the only one there is that is down low. Now the question is - why does yours cross- feed so well and mine is stuck? I have an idea that is sort of a bandaid fix- make another drain plug that is much shorter- That should solve the problem providing it does not leak.- it will only have 4 exposed threads above the gasket.

feetup fun! Take another look at that casting pic you sent- there is a hole thru the wall - looks like just in front of the left most threaded hole boss at the bottom left corner- I looked at my pics again and I had too much ATF still in puddles to see if mine had that hole open or not- but it looks big enough to equalize the two sides if it was there and if it was also open.! And I don't think that's the same hole as the drain plug hole is it? But even if it was the same hole- when the drain plug is installed- it would block off any oil that wanted to flow thru the wall. My problem is not when the oil drains anyway- that's fine- it's only when you fill it up that the imbalance starts.

Feetup fun- I don't think there are any gaskets that go INSIDE the gearbox, so not much chance of a bad gasket being installed there- more like a loose rag or something like that? I might be able to find my borescope and have a peek inside the gearbox. Right now, any oil that is above the rim of the clutch but below that 8mm hole would be trapped there- the drain plug is on the other side of the wall!

With about 950CC's added directly to the gearbox via the syringe, the oil level on the stick is normal- no waiting. I added the other 50CC's into the dip stick hole after the clutch cover was re-installed and now the oil level on the dipstick is normal. This still does not give me any confidence that things are really normal because there won't be full circulation thru the wall. With only the one hole high up functioning- it would seem possible that most of the clutch oil would be slung thru the 8mm hole because of the large spinning clutch and more or less stay there as long as the engine is running.

Feetupfun, Before I read the above- I took the clutch cover off- Cases were empty at the time- I didn't see anything unusual - mostly because the clutch basket is blocking most of the view behind it. Anyway I found an opening in the casting above and behind the clutch basket- Started adding ATF with the syringe- When I had 950 cc's added- the ATF started coming out of the 8MM hole which is to the left of the clutch assembly and slightly below the axis of the clutch. This hole is also above the upper line on the dipstick by about an inch. So this is telling me that there is not much circulation happening between the clutch side of the wall and the gearbox unless the oil is at or above that 8MM hole. I have looked at pics of the raw case halfs on Ebay and tried to figure out if and where there might be another hole in the wall in another location that is not occupied by a gearshaft or some other parts that are mounted in the gearbox. You would think that there should be another hole somewhere lower down than the 8mm hole on the left side of the clutch- which would allow oil to circulate thru the wall more freely, but unless there is one behind the clutch basket, I am at a loss to find it. That is brought home by the idea that nothing is coming out of the wall until the oil gets up to the 8MM hole on the left - unless you count a very slow drip that seems to be coming out from behind the clutch.

Feetup fun- I will check the level again this morning, but if it is still high I will be pulling off the clutch cover and have a look- Just going off of faint memories- I think I used to be able to take on a liter with no issues before the engine overhaul. I checked the top case vent to see if it was clogged - not clogged. What do you suppose it is?

There is a drain plug underneath the engine case uses a 13mm wrench to loosen- it will be near the centerline and have a gasket under the rim of it.

Feetupfun and Guy, Starting from a drained crank case- this morning I put in exactly 1 Liter of ATF as a test. As of 3:30 this afternoon, the dipstick is still showing about an inch of over fill. I tried leaning the bike over to the left side about 30 degrees for 30 minutes , and this seemed to drop the overfill condition so that it came down from about a 1.5" overfill to about a 1" overfill, but never did settle more than that.- Tommorow I will pull off the clutch cover and see if I can figure out why the oil is not being distributed enough to use up the 1 liter quantity. It would help if someone else did the same test- drain and fill 1 liter and see what the dipstick shows for a quantity????

Those are possibilities I hadn't thought of especially #4- all the gaskets were replaced when the crank was overhauled. #3- I could try filling it again and see how long (or if) it ever does absorb a full liter down to the top mark on the dip stick. I had been testing the amount of clutch drag for maybe 20 minutes before I checked the dip stick and found it to be over filled by about 2". I will start over tomorrow and fill it again with 1 liter- it should level out in say 10 minutes or less- never noticed this problem before. If it fails to level in 10 minutes I will pull off the clutch cover and see if I can see any reason why the oil would get trapped in the clutch area. #2 the kick stand is on the left side away from the dip stick so the oil would drain away from the dip stick and show less than it really has- so that is probably not the culprit. #1- Anything can happen by accident - I did over fill it once because new oil is so transparent on the dipstick, but when I started using ATF, it's red, so there is no mistaking the level that it makes visible on the dip stick.

Yes you can- that's the simple answer- you will probably still want a flywheel puller and some way to hold onto the flywheel while you are wrenching on the puller- But DO NOT restrict the crank shaft from the other side or the piston in order to tighten or loosen the flywheel nut. You can easily knock the crank shaft out of alignment that way.

Shooter 308- Unless you are changing the points or condenser you really don't need a flywheel puller. All the adjustments for point gap and cleaning can be done ( it's a PITA) thru the slot in the flywheel. Feetupfun or one of the other guys can give you more details on the timing.

Doug- I had one problem like that last time and it was a corroded ground connection at the high voltage coil where the wire attaches to the frame. Another thing to check is to be sure there is no ground on the kill switch wire- If you have the stock kill switch you want the red square not to be showing when starting. also leave the throttle closed to start- that works better for me. And make sure the points are clean and dry. The voltage at the points is so low that any oil or residue on the points and it will not make any sparks. I will be trying to make sparks on mine tomorrow- may run into the same problem- I changed most of my wiring around and eliminated the lights completely. By the way- you need a very sensitive low ohms range ohm meter to check this stuff out. The stator coil windings are thick and few, and the resistance to ground only changes about 0.1 ohm when the points open- impossible to catch with a garden variety ohm meter. Some guys use a battery and a 6 volt tail light bulb across the points- when you see the light change color- that is when the points open- very subtle. Anyway, the stator coils and the HV coil primary are in parallel all the time to ground. When you ground out that line on the handlebars, it prevents that tiny voltage from reaching the HV coil primary. The kick comes from the magnetic field collapsing when the points open about 3 degrees before top dead center. There is no spark advance on the stock TY 250 A if you were wondering. A timing light is really not useful. Good luck!

feetup fun- that's great stuff- I have the same one and the same measurement 133 mm. Next question- how can anyone get a full 1 liter of oil to stay below the upper fill mark on this dip stick? I can only get .4 liters in and even that much will touch or exceed the upper fill mark when the engine is cold. I can't believe that warming the engine would make another .6 liters get absorbed??

feetup fun- that's great stuff- I have the same one and the same measurement 133 mm. Next question- how can anyone get a full 1 liter of oil to stay below the upper fill mark on this dip stick? I can only get .4 liters in and even that much will touch or exceed the upper fill mark when the engine is cold. I can't believe that warming the engine would make another .6 liters get absorbed??

Guy - I did that and the dipstick shows a huge overfill condition. Clutch drags bad. That's cold of course, still sorting this out.

Can somebody with an original TY 250 A tell me what the stock length of the dipstick is? I'm getting 133 mm for just the metal rod below the plastic handle???? The part number on CMSNL is 3221536300, but on there it looks like a plastic one. - I want to make sure I have the right quantity of gearbox oil in there. Thanks for your help!

OK- with the help of Magesty- The torque setting for the 4 aluminum hold down bolts in the cylinder are listed as 4.2 to 4.5 m-kg this comes out to 30-32ft pounds of tonque on those aluminum tube nuts!! That seems like a lot to me- Soound right to you ?

Guys- I have most of the torque settings in a shop manual for a B model, but I don't have the torque setting for the 4 aluminum cylinder hold down female bolts. Anybody? these are soft aluminum with a hex shaped top (4 each) if that helps- Thanks in advance!