..If you want to encourage new people into an activity why would you want to make it harder for them?
I have really enjoyed finding large number of youngsters that are keen on trials. It's really great to see kids doing something that encourages responsibility and gives them confidence. Most seem to start out with the new electric Oset bikes. I wish they had been around when I was a nipper.
Euro 4 is irrelevant with Euro 5 coming in to force in less than a year. I wonder how many of the current trials manufacturers will be able to meet it. I did read that it would require 30% lower emissions than Euro 4 but don't know how true that is. Perhaps there will be a way round it for small volume manufacturers...
I am new to the sport and was amazed that the bikes do not need type approval. Must be the only road vehicle that is exempt? I can see that Euro 5 would be a big problem. Road bikes have long abandoned 2 stroke to meet all the standards. Do you know if the emission standards are a regulation for competitions or just for road use? Most bike are off road only so it might not be a major issue, but I wondered if the FIM or similar require certain standards? I was going to try some green lanes with mine but in the end have found it better to use a (off road) practice ground so never got round to a VED (I MOT'd it and it is insured with my road bike)
Once you get past the stereotype of shoddy Chinese tat it looks a good machine. At the price if it were here at that level is probably about the same as European stuff. (I assume that the US$ price would be the base machine then UK VAT) I also think it would get a lot of negativity as it is Chinese if it came to the UK. certainly one to watch for the future though.
I think it would be possible to revive a UK brand, but clearly developing a new engine is not cost effective. The obvious thing is to buy in an engine and build a UK frame. There are few engines available, The obvious one being Rotax as they are one of the few manufacturers that sell just engines. I have no idea if the Rotax is suitable for this application? They are sold for go-karts and I would think therefore have a different power delivery to that which a trials bike needs. I'd love to hear if anyone has any expertise in this area. Also I don't know if this meets the current Euro 4 needs? Even with the UK out the EU we will still need to comply with all the European standards if we are to sell into that market.
There is a good spread of technology there already with the Italian and Spanish bikes and Montesa Honda benefiting from the new EU-Japan deal. It would be a very tough market to enter, particularly as an outsider. That said the brands like BSA are very well known and could be a selling point, however you would first need to buy the brand from whoever owns it.
Basically we are reinventing the wheel and the way to go is to buy the Chinese bike!
.Roll on BREXIT we’ll just have to stand on our own feet again and get on with it...we did alright before the EU involvement so why think we will sink. The EU crats will need someone else to feather their exorbitant salaries, we can put our money to better use at home.
I'm afraid that leaving the EU will finish off the UK and leave it with no manufacturing at all. The rest of your post is rubbish as well. However, this is not the place to debate the subject. We will not have a UK made trials bike in the next 20 years and I would personally bet that much more of the current Triumph production will move from Hinckley to Thailand. That is a shame as I would like to see the UK produce bikes as much as anyone.
The way we're going the Chinese will be the only ones trading with us .
Anyone in the UK that criticises this needs to look at our own offerings, yes, nil .
It's a shame the UK motorcycle industry is no more. Some of the world's best known brands started in the UK and it took a property developer to return Triumph to the market as a Kawasaki copy. There are enough European trials manufacturers without really any need for another one in the UK. The development costs of a small engine with such a limited market is really against any new entrant to the market. Making a bike with another manufacturer's engine is the best way forward. But that is more or less re-inventing the wheel.
I think all of us have to face up to the fact that the future of the UK is not manufacturing. Come April this year what there is might well shut down.
I would love to expand our current business into trials bikes but with a new Beta costing less than 6k retail I doubt there is any money at all to be made in the trials market.
I am new to trials and cannot bring much to the debate about the handling and so on of the two models even though I have ridden both. I recently bought a Rev 3 and I like it a lot. However the silencer and subframe issue is enough that I wish i had spent a bit more and bought an EVO. Look at all the modern bikes and the exhaust is tucked away in a much better design like the EVO has. I hope that I get the chance to see if I can fit an EVO pipe to the Rev 3 - the question seems if the rear shock is in the way.
The Rev is a good bike, of that there is no doubt. I find the gearbox to be a bit agricultural and the clutch stick issue annoys me but it is a great (and inexpensive) bike to learn on (and boy is there a lot to learn).
The missus is learning with me and at some point will need her own bike. It most probably will be an EVO (unless I can con her into having mine then I will buy an EVO for me..) I will upgrade mine when the money allows for it. If you weigh up initial purchase cost plus all the mods needed to sort out the exhaust the EVO would have been cheaper long run.
Chinese engineering is one of two things; cheap and a bit poor or world class. Their domestic market is growing and no doubt for trials bikes as well as other automotive markets. The Canadian website has some odd choices of photos but the components look OK. Perhaps this bike is worth a look? There are a lot of Chinese bikes in the UK in the small road category, scooters, mopeds and suchlike. Most of the ones I have seen are not really than much cheaper and are not really all that good in terms of build quality.
i would think the main issue is spares and after sales. It will take (in my view) a few years before the Chinese bike can build up a decent dealer network and spares service. The UK market is well served and there are lots of very good machines to choose from. I can see the USP of electric start is one advantage though - my missus would like that!
Thank you for all your replies, some interesting and varied comments. The towbar was retrofit fit to my van and its the towbar manufactures that specify the max ball weight. Its a small van, too small for the bike to fit inside without a proper struggle. I love the dave cooper carrier, just to point out my concern is not with the rack, its superb and does a great job. I think its a case of what your happy with, for me I know for sure that the nose weight will be exceeded and although its strong enough to take the additional weight it opens up a can of worms for the insurance companies to wriggle out of if I ever needed to claim and I don't want that. So Ive decided to look for a trailer. Please keep your comments coming though.
If the towbar gives a maximum weight that is the maximum even if the vehicle is OK for more- it is the lowest figure in either case. I think you are making the right decision to get a trailer.
Have a look at the Dave Cooper folding trailer. http://www.davecooper.co.uk/trailers/trailers-for-bikes That is a good item if you are short for space. Dave does some other basic trailers at a reasonable cost as well. I would strongly advise you to avoid the mistake of buying a secondhand trailer off eBay or similar. Very few people sell up for any reason other than the trailer is worn out. By the time you have replaced the wheel bearings, tyres and lights you will have spent more than a new item.
The other option is a goods trailer and the extra faff of strapping the bike into the cargo box. In my opinion it's worth getting a wheel bracket for the front wheel if you go that route, they are easy to fabricate or you can buy one ready made for purpose built trailers like the Franc. Most small goods trailers will store stood up on the tailgate to take up less space.
Don't forget your [legal] speed will be reduced when towing and you cannot use the outside lane on a motorway. Your van insurance should cover towing at no extra cost, just double check (some insurance companies consider a towbar as a "modification" and you need to tell them you have one fitted).
My concern is insurance. If your limit is 70kg and you put a 65kg bike on, plus fluids, plus rack, plus mud, you are exceeding the limit. If you have an accident you insurance company will be looking for any excuse to not pay out. And you just provided one! Even if it’s completely irrelevant to the circumstances of the accident.
Check the car/van manual. Some vehicles have a higher agreed nose weight limit for the tow bar. In practice it is unlikely that there would be a mechanical failure, however the insurance and legal issues are relevant. Personally I would be more worried that the bike came to some harm and the insurers wouldn't pay out on that. The issue with these bike racks is that the weight of the bike is so far back and it limits what other load you can put in the vehicle. That's why there is a risk of grounding over speed bumps or similar. It is still possible to buy the rubber assisters for coil springs that were once a popular item for caravan users. These might be helpful but I have no personal experience of them even though we sell them.
I agree with turbofurball, make sure there is adequate lighting and a lit number plate to avoid hassle. If you are using a rack at night I would be very tempted to put outside markers on the bike as well so the extra width can be seen front and back. Again it's the bike that I care about - you don't want to have some idiot bend the front wheel for you.
A trailer is a good idea if you have space to store one. You can get ones that have a front panel that drops down like the tailgate and makes it long enough for a bike or pair of bikes but still gives you a trailer for other uses. Dedicated motorbike trailers really only do the one job. Trials bikes are so light compared to a road bike that you can carry them on anything. I just need to figure out how to tow the Beta with my Suzuki GSXF.
....The added cost now, of a licence at 145 euros for a classic type or over 250 for a modern type might also add to the problem. Hope that helps from across the channel.
Do you need a FIM licence just to practice? There are lots of places in France where you could spend a day or so riding some great terrain (near you I am sure). There always seems to be a lot of people with crossers and quads in the forest dom. when we visit.
I have just bought a (registered) Beta Rev 3 (old one) and added it to my road bike insurance through Bikesure. https://www.bikesure.co.uk/ Cost? Nowt. Just an adjustment fee. Would have been free if had left it until my renewal. There is a £450 excess on theft. (Road bike Suzuki 650)
The quote from MSM (two riders) was 114 TPO and 156 TPFT.
The difference as best I can see is you are not covered with my road bike policy for competitions. As best I understand it the ACU covers competition use (RTA only) but you need insurance for the tax so the bike is legal for the road. Will get the MOT in the next week or so. I bought an EVO horn off ebay and it works OK. (Will take it off once MOTd) I have ordered a number plate for the test as well and found a little bracket (again ebay) to bolt it on that comes apart to take off the plate after the test.
It also struck me that if the road bike was out of action the Beta will keep my NCD running. Win win.
The First Chinese Trials Bike
in Four-Stroke
Posted
I have really enjoyed finding large number of youngsters that are keen on trials. It's really great to see kids doing something that encourages responsibility and gives them confidence. Most seem to start out with the new electric Oset bikes. I wish they had been around when I was a nipper.