pete_scorpa3

It was a 'snowout' last year, so things are improving!

Yes I agree with you, thankfully the RLO's for both area's agreed too. Had they insisted that we followed the stipulations to the letter, then that's just what we would have done. I just don't know how!

No need to appologise, the RLO's for both areas that the Colmore passes through both said that contacting every house around the route directly would create too many objections. Mostly from people that wouldn't even notice the event was running. So with this in mind, we have carried out a more general notification in the area. Sometimes, a little less is worth a lot more. Pete

Just to clarify, we didn't contact every dwelling within 500m of the route, just those within 500m of a section. We notified homes around the course using other means. Knocking on every door around a 28 mile route would have been impossible, and raised unnecessary problems.

The Colmore Cup on the 3rd March is almost fully subscribed, so anyone still thinking of entering this event should get their entries in quick. For riders who have entered, this is a 28 mile road trial. Please note the following: As part of the MSA approval process, the club has been requried to contact both the Gloucestershire Police and the West Mercia Police. The Police have asked us to confirm that all machines are fully road legal and properly insured! Please check your insurance to ensure that it does not exclude you from riding in trials... many policies do! If so, you can purchase basic road insurance on the day when you sign on. (certain restrictions apply.) The club would also ask riders to make sure a legal number plate and tax disc are correctly dispalyed on their bikes. Thanks for your help with this. We've never applied for MSA before and subsequently not informed the Police. They may well take an unhealthy interest in this years event. Pete An entry list can be found on the clubn web site under entries http://www.stratford-upon-avonmcc.org.uk/

I'm pleased to say that approval has now been given by the MSA for the Colmore Cup. I've done my very best to comply with every requirement, whether I could have got away with doing less I do not know. But here is a summary of what I did. Downloaded the relevant forms and guidance notes from the ACU web site. Contacted the relevant RLO (Route Liaison Officers) for both areas that the event will be entering, to confirm there was no date clash. Completed the application form stating things like start times, mileage etc. Using OS maps scale 1:50,000 and tracing paper, I traced the route that the trial will follow, clearly marking the start/finish, the points where the route leaves and rejoins to public highway and the times that the first rider arrives/leaves each location. The tracing also requires two grid lines NS & EW to use as datum points. I produced a letter formally confirming that the club has permissions from land owners to use each group of sections. I then contacted Debbie at the ACU to inform her of what I had done. Before sending the information, I copied everything five times (you will see why in a moment.) The information was then sent to the MSA by recorded delivery. Arriving no later than three months prior to the event. The MSA responded fairly quickly with additional stipulations: 1. Supply written conformation of the exact route including a tracing for one (and a map for the other) police forces responsible for the roads being used 2. Supply written conformation of the exact route including tracings to both RLO's. 3. Carry out PR. To include contacting in-person every home owner within 500m of a section and informing all homes along the route and confirm in writing that this has been done 4. Supply a list of key officials and their mobile telephone details, to be used by the MSA if contact the organisers on the day of the event. 5. Research and confirm in writing that the necessary authorisations have been given to use any public footpath, restricted byway or bridleway. 6. Describe how the club will be managing spectators for the evetnt. 7. Confirm in writing that these stipulations have been carried out and that no objections have been raised. Both RLO's formally responded quite quickly with no additional actions. One Police force responded via email within a few days stating that they required the following: i. Confirm in writing that all machine being used in the event are fully road legal and properly insured. ii. Confirm in writing that there will be no stops of check points on the public highway. iii. Apply to the local District Council to apply for a TEN notice (Cost £43). The local council was informed and they did not require a TEN notice. Once these stipulations had been dealt with, the Police then gave their permission for the event to proceed; but worthy of note, in the official letter from the Chief Constable, that also stated that all machines must be fully road legal and properly insured. The other Police force, have not responded. Once I had all of the neccessary paperwork, Letters from RLO's, Police, Club PR Officer and Club ROW Officer, I drew up a letter detailing exactly what we had done and enclosed the paperwork.I then copied the lot (for my records) and sent it to the MSA by recorded delivery. Approximately a week later, I recieved and email from the MSA confirming that approval had been granted to run the event and that they will be sending an invoice in the next week or two. I am happy and relieved to have been given MSA approval, as I said above, I may have done too much, I don't know. What other clubs do is up to them! I am concerned that we were given the ACU permit before MSA approval was granted, but JC has delt with that elsewhere in this thread. I also think that the MSA are taking £302.50 for doing very little, but again that's not for us to worry about, we've simply put the entry fee up to cover this. It's the riders who are worse off by £2.75 each. I guess I have spent about 15 to 20 hours completing the MSA process, (and a lot of printer ink) the next event will be quicker as I know what to expect. It has taken me away from organising the trial itself, but we are lucky that there are others who will help. Not every club has helpers they can delegate this job to. I hope my summary of the process makes sense, maybe it will help others to understand the process a little better. Fingers crossed that the weather allows us to run the trial after all this! Pete

I have now completed everything that I've been asked to do (I hope) and notified the MSA that this is the case. John Collins was correct when he said the ACU would issue the permit without MSA approval, we do now have the permit, so the trial will run. I am confident that the MSA will give us approval, in which case I will summarise exactly what I have done and post the process on here. That way, others can compare it to what they have done, or possibly even follow the steps that I have taken. We will see. Fingers crossed that approval is granted. Pete

If the MSA choose to ignore events that do not have their approval, then this whole subject will cease to be an issue. If the MSA decide to prosecute/fine/punish/ warn (or whatever they can do) then someone is in for a shock. I just don't want that someone to be us. Others may relish the chance to fight. Lets wait and see.

John, I am not encourgaged by your answer, in fact I am rather surprised. From my point of view, it certainly means that the Colmore won't be cancelled due to lack of MSA approval (although the weather is a different concern) but that does make me wonder why on earth I've been spending all this time worrying about the MSA. It also puts me in a dilema for our next two national road trials, for which I am the Clerk of the Course myself....... is MSA worth having, is it worth the risk of not having? I will stop now, as I can see that this is likely to give fuel to the 'anti ACU' brigade, of which I certainly am not. Pete Barnett

Wrong answer. Issuing a permit when MSA has not been approved is not a good descision. It does not reward those clubs who get MSA approval, it does not encourgae other clubs to go through the process and worst of all, the ACU are issuing a permit to an illegal event. How can that happen? Surely we deserve clear leadership on this?

John, Thank you for taking the time to explain the situation as you (and the ACU) see it regarding MSA approval. If (and I'm sure you have) read the previous posts in this thread, you will see that I am trying my very best to meet all of the criteria that has been laid out by the MSA for the Colmore Cup. It does seem a minefield and I have still to get a reply from every dept that I need to contact, depite sending stamped addressed envelopes, email addresses etc. I am almost in the postion to reply to the MSA now, even if it is to say that the Police have been informed but not replied. It hasn't been easy, but I think I've done it right. The next few days will tell. I hope that the MSA won't ask me to do more, but if they do.... I will. My question to you is simple but very important. If I hadn't applied for MSA approval would the ACU still issue a permit for the trial? Pete Barnett Stratford-Upon-Avon MCC

Church bells have been ringing for hundreds of years (and the Colmore is only 102) but that doesn't stop people complaining about the noise. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-20572854

Funny you shold mention this. I've heard more from the Police concerning this today, they have asked me to confirm that the machines taking part inthe event are all road legal. I have informed them that all machines are required to be fully road legal, however it is the riders responsibility to ensure that this is the case and not the organising clubs. Do I hear the sound of cans of worms being opened? I do hope this is going to end happily!

Muddy old Midlands and use Michelin Front, IRC rear. On the 400 trail bike that I use for LDT's it's a Michelin Competition rear, which is a harder tyre and (more) suitable for road use.

Well if that's the case then it's the West Mercia Police that are doing the leading for some reason.

To summarise. I am trying to comply with all of the stipulations presented to me by the MSA If the ACU issue the permit before I get MSA approval, then they have not followed their own process. Some Clerk of the Course' may be happy to sign that everything has been done when it hasn't, that's their risk to take. I will NOT sign to say something is done if it hasn't been and the trial will not run.

I am not waiting for Rugby to issue the permit, I am trying to comply with all of the stipulations presented to me by the MSA. Once this is done to my satisfaction I will confirm to the MSA that everything is in place, they will then notify the ACU that the approval has been granted and the ACU will issue the permit. If the ACU issue the permit before I get MSA approval, then they have not followed their own process. I am still in hope that I will be able to get everything correctly in place, West Mercia Police have asked me to apply for a TEN fromthe local authorities which I will do, however I have still not heard back from Gloucestershire Police, they may require something completely different. And time is now starting to run out. As I keep saying, I will NOT sign to say something is done if it hasn't been and the trial will not run. Some Clerk of the Course' may be happy to sign that everything has been done when it hasn't, that's their risk to take. I suspect that there will be a trial cancelled over this issue fairly shortly, I am hearing stories of clubs who are not going to apply for MSA. So it stands to reason that sooner or later a permit will be withheld, or maybe worse still, a trial will be stopped on the day becasue the MSA approval is not present. I do not want this to be the case for the Colmore, which is why I am jumping through hoops.

I've used a place near Moreton-In-Marsh (Glos) in the past, they were a little cheaper than that, but it was for a straight forward shotblast and powder coat job in black and white. £160 does sound like a good price for all that work.

As soon as you sign on at the start of an event you are in it. Whether you use your bike or your van is irrelevant, you are in the event. This may invalidate your insurance, on your trials bike and even in your van, but that's a different issue. Once we as a club are using the road as part of our event, then we need (so we are told at the moment,) to go through MSA approval. This includes contacting the Police. As the Colmore crosses two constabularies, then we had to contact both areas. If the Police then come back and tell us we need to apply for a TEN before they will approve our application, then that is what I will do. For both area's if necessary. Now I am not saying I like it... I don't. And as I mentioned above, I don't know what other clubs have done. But if it is not done, then I will not say it has. And the trial WILL be cancelled. Our hands ate tied; that is unless the ACU agree to issue a permit without MSA approval. Others are talking about not applying, or just saying they've done this or that. Well that's up to them, everyone has to deal with this in their own way. At the moment, things are not looking very bright. And I do hope that the ACU will be proactive with this; in some way.

Ignoring the problems of parking 50 to 60 vans at each section, it still wouldn't help as we would still need MSA approval to drive those vans in the trial.

I may well be overdoing this, but until I am informed otherwise I will comply with every requirement and stipulation to the best of my ability. I don't know if other clubs have done things differently, but if the Police ask for a TEN then that is what I will get... if I can. I will not be putting my name to something that has not been done! Both MSA RLO's have now confirmed that they are happy with our arrangements, Warwickshire Police require a TEN, it just leaves Gloucetershire Police to get back to me now. They may well present different stipulations. It will be interestting to see what they say.... if anything!

The Police have now responded to our application and have asked us the apply to the Council for a Temporaory Event Notice....... another pile of paperwork and a fee of £21. http://www.stratford.gov.uk/business/temporary-event-notices.cfm

I spoken to a RLO today and that is just what he said has happened. Concerning 'why now?' One theory is that income has dropped for the MSA due to so many car events being cancelled due to the weather in 2012, to boost income, they started looking to minority events. Never the less, it does appear that we should have been seeking approval all these years to meet the requirement of the law, so for now we must take that 'as-read.' I just hope that the procedure that I have followed is acceptable and that we are granted approval to run and a permit is issued by the ACU. Talk of not applying for MSA is surely futile, without approval we wouldn't be issued a permit and the trial would be cancelled?

If that is the case, the question is: Why has the ACU started encouraging clubs to apply for MSA?

You never know what a bike is like from an ebay listing, some are described honestly... some not. I find that I have to be fully prepared to walk away if it's not exactly what I want. I've bought vehicles in the past and really wished that I hadn't. For example, you can easily spend £300 on freshening things up. Then you realise that you've spent the kind of meoney that you could get a 2008 bike from a dealer with all the facilities they can offer. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Beta-250cc-rev-3-trials-2008-excellent-condition-/111001578939?pt=UK_Motorcycles&hash=item19d835adbb However, that doesn't mean the 2005 is a bad buy, it could be the bargain of the year.