Section Marking Out System.

[scorpa3]

Years ago we all rode the same route. Then as bikes advanced, the better riders could do things on their machines that the lesser riders had no chance of doing and two routes became the norm.

Although we would all prefer to keep things simple, it is becoming more and more common for clubs to now offer three routes. This begs the question; how do we mark out three routes?

I use bLue/Red, yeLlow/gReen (Cap letters for L or R) and pairs of whites for the easy route. I have also experimented with cououred arrows, (As used by the Mid Centre Youth championship) but this uses a hell of a lot of staples/wires and takes a lot more time.

I know these idea's aren't perfect, so what do you prefer to use?

[shercomann1103]

Our club in the North East uses white flags for the easy route and black numbers on white backgrounds on the numbers on the bikes so the observers know that the rider is on the correct route; red and blue flags for the clubman course and blue backgrounds for rider numbers and then yellow flags and yellow backgrounds on numbers for the expert course. We use this method at every trial we run and we find this practically elimates any confusion over what courses people are on and the routes the riders should be following.

[scorpa3]

Our club in the North East uses white flags for the easy route and black numbers on white backgrounds on the numbers on the bikes so the observers know that the rider is on the correct route; red and blue flags for the clubman course and blue backgrounds for rider numbers and then yellow flags and yellow backgrounds on numbers for the expert course. We use this method at every trial we run and we find this practically elimates any confusion over what courses people are on and the routes the riders should be following.

I know the pairs of colours work..... but, this is one of the things which I've been critisised for recently, as I use pairs of whites for our easy route, but how do you know what side of a white you should go?

Forgive me for playing devils advocate here for a moment. Imagine a gully with a row of trees either side, the Clerk of the course puts a white marker on every tree. Straight up you think, you get to the top and the observer shouts 'five' when you ask why he says 'you should have gone between those two whites on the left- not straight up!'

[dale]

You could use a triangle shaped marker with the point showing which side of obstacle to pass on -ect < > . I have ridden in different centres and found this pretty easy to follow.As to which colours,everybody does it differently,but i agree nothing worse than missing a marker.

[scorpa3]

You could use a triangle shaped marker with the point showing which side of obstacle to pass on -ect < > . I have ridden in different centres and found this pretty easy to follow.As to which colours,everybody does it differently,but i agree nothing worse than missing a marker.

A good idea. The Midland Centre Youth Championship uses this system.

Red arrows for the A route.

Blue arrows for the B route.

Green arrows for the C route.

White arrows for the D route.

[coxy]

the best thing i have seen so far for marking out the sections is tape around the outside of the section which you cannot go outside and then the easy route go anywhere between the tape so they can pick their own lines depending on how confident they are and the middle route follow green flags and the hard route follow red and blue seems to work fine and not seen many complaining about it

[gii]

Years ago we all rode the same route. Then as bikes advanced, the better riders could do things on their machines that the lesser riders had no chance of doing and two routes became the norm.

Although we would all prefer to keep things simple, it is becoming more and more common for clubs to now offer three routes. This begs the question; how do we mark out three routes?

Our club in the North East uses white flags for the easy route and black numbers on white backgrounds on the numbers on the bikes so the observers know that the rider is on the correct route; red and blue flags for the clubman course and blue backgrounds for rider numbers and then yellow flags and yellow backgrounds on numbers for the expert course. We use this method at every trial we run and we find this practically elimates any confusion over what courses people are on and the routes the riders should be following.

I know the pairs of colours work..... but, this is one of the things which I've been critisised for recently, as I use pairs of whites for our easy route, but how do you know what side of a white you should go?

Forgive me for playing devils advocate here for a moment. Imagine a gully with a row of trees either side, the Clerk of the course puts a white marker on every tree. Straight up you think, you get to the top and the observer shouts 'five' when you ask why he says 'you should have gone between those two whites on the left- not straight up!'

I'm also involved in the organising side of trials in the NE centre, my club uses numbers with a white background for the easy course, blue background for the middle course, and pink background for the hard course.

The colour of the numbers is also printed in the observers clipboard. It probably helps a bit, but the 2 posts above show a mis-interpretation of the rules and the intended route.

In the NE Centre, the clerk of the course and his helpers mark out 1 route, this is with 2 coloured flags, typically red and blue, (but some clubs red and yellow, OK 1 club). He will then mark out variations to the route using pairs of identically coloured flags, perhaps pairs of yellow for the hard variation and pairs of white for the easy variation (it is normally very obvious which is the hard variation and which is the easy variation) what riders often fail to appreciate is that they after following a variation, they must revert to the marked route - this failure is much more prevalent in riders following the easy variation-

An example:

A typical NE Centre section, perhaps 30-50 metres straight up a stream with 2 steps / waterfalls.

The course will be marked with red and blue flags up the stream, at the 2 steps / waterfalls the red/blue flags will be gates at the easiest points still in in the stream.

Pairs of yellow flags will restrict riders on the hard route to riding up the harder parts of the step/waterfall.

Pairs of white flags will allow riders on the easy route to ride onto the stream bank and bypass each step/waterfall (they may be the full width, ie. including the hard and normal route as well as the variation, or they may force easy course riders onto a varied course.)

Between each step/waterfall all riders will ride in the stream bed , easy course riders will not ride along the stream bank to the next pair of whites ('though it looks easy) at the next waterfall. all riders must ride the marked course between variations

To clarify this I think that the Clerk of the course should ride ahead of the riders to make sure that each observer is confident of observing the intended route for each course. Since it takes 30-40 minutes before anyone attempts the first section this shouldn't be a problem, but I've never seen it happen.

Riders who in the example above ride straight up the gully when they should be zig-zagging could then be quickly advised that they have mis-interpreted the section and be allowed a second attempt (easily justified on the grounds that they had not had a practise ride on the intended route)

Edited April 24, 2007 by GII

[montman]

Amazing how many different colours are used.

In the South Midland Centre generally

pairs of Whites are used for the hard route,

pairs of Reds for the middle route and

pairs of Blues for the easy route.

But odd clubs even vary this within the centre.

[scorpa3]

Amazing how many different colours are used.

In the South Midland Centre generally

pairs of Whites are used for the hard route,

pairs of Reds for the middle route and

pairs of Blues for the easy route.

But odd clubs even vary this within the centre.

It's obvious that there are endless variations on this subject.

Just for a moment, lets forget the system which we are each most familiar with and start with a clean sheet (no pun inteneded.)

Our system must be- easy to understand by observers and riders, it must be clear, it must be simple for one man and his staple gun to set out and most importantly it must be unambiguous. (No more 'I thought I had to go the other side of that marker')

What would be the best system to use (in your opinion) for marking out three routes if we were going to have one standard system for all events?

[cg125]

Forgive me for playing devils advocate here for a moment. Imagine a gully with a row of trees either side, the Clerk of the course puts a white marker on every tree. Straight up you think, you get to the top and the observer shouts 'five' when you ask why he says 'you should have gone between those two whites on the left- not straight up!'

Assuming it's understood that the markers are paired making "gates" then going straight up is clearly wrong. I can see how it might be confusing to keep track of which markers are paired though.

In the few trials that I have done so far the routes have been marked out with pairs of yellow, red, blue and white cards (in ascending order of difficulty). There's no indication of left and right, but it doesn't seem to cause any major problems.

I would definitely prefer to follow one colour throughout the section. The "variations" system mentioned above sounds like it might be overly complicated.

For absolute clarity how about having the paired cards numbered with, say, the right hand one underlined? It's going to make laying out more time consuming though compared with just using plain cards, but might be easier than arrows.

[scottt]

All very interesting, but as someone who's new to Trials it would be nice to see some consistency, every other form of motorsport seems to be able to do why are we different?

3 of my local clubs mark the easy route with a blue flag on the left, white on the right, the other club who had there 1st trial of the year a couple of weeks ago had blue on the right white on the left, caught a few people out on the first lap.

Something a basic and as important as this should be specified in the ACU rules, should'nt it?

White = Easy

Blue = Hard

Red = Expert

If every club followed a pattern like that, you could turn up for a trial anywhere in the country and know instantly what route you were on, that would make more sense.

Imagine the situation if road races were run to a similar thing, at Oulton Park a yellow flag means slow down, at Mallory its a blue flag, at brands its orange with yellow spots etc etc.

If its confusing to us how must it be to the odd spectators or the guy who's thinking of starting and comes along for a look?

[baldilocks]

I also ride in the NE centre and find it frustrating that we use the same colour flags for left and right for two out of the three courses. At the recent Consett trial on Good Friday one observer asked me to ride the section again as i had not used the same route as other riders and she was going to go with the majority. At a different section we all rode it incorrectly the first lap and were then advised of the correct route on the second lap. This isn't the first time this has happened.

I dont think its necessary for the CoC to travel round before hand advising the observers, the CoC puts enough time in the day before the trial without having to do another job on the day of the event. Surely as a centre we can agree on six colours for flags and then stick to them ?

I propose Yellow / White for Expert, Red / Blue for Clubman and Pink / Purple for the easy route.

any comments ?

Before anybody jumps in most of you in the NE will know I have marked out many trials in my time

[atomant]

All very interesting, but as someone who's new to Trials it would be nice to see some consistency, every other form of motorsport seems to be able to do why are we different?

3 of my local clubs mark the easy route with a blue flag on the left, white on the right, the other club who had there 1st trial of the year a couple of weeks ago had blue on the right white on the left, caught a few people out on the first lap.

Something a basic and as important as this should be specified in the ACU rules, should'nt it?

White = Easy

Blue = Hard

Red = Expert

If every club followed a pattern like that, you could turn up for a trial anywhere in the country and know instantly what route you were on, that would make more sense.

Imagine the situation if road races were run to a similar thing, at Oulton Park a yellow flag means slow down, at Mallory its a blue flag, at brands its orange with yellow spots etc etc.

If its confusing to us how must it be to the odd spectators or the guy who's thinking of starting and comes along for a look?

Couldn't agree more. It should be in the ACU rules for sure. Never understood why it isn't.

Also, White for easy is a must. The reason I think this is because you need to make it as easy as possible for the them and therefore white being nice and bright is the easiest flag to see. Especially when its in the the cover of a wooded area.

IMHO

[scorpa3]

All very interesting, but as someone who's new to Trials it would be nice to see some consistency, every other form of motorsport seems to be able to do why are we different?

3 of my local clubs mark the easy route with a blue flag on the left, white on the right, the other club who had there 1st trial of the year a couple of weeks ago had blue on the right white on the left, caught a few people out on the first lap.

Something a basic and as important as this should be specified in the ACU rules, should'nt it?

White = Easy

Blue = Hard

Red = Expert

If every club followed a pattern like that, you could turn up for a trial anywhere in the country and know instantly what route you were on, that would make more sense.

Imagine the situation if road races were run to a similar thing, at Oulton Park a yellow flag means slow down, at Mallory its a blue flag, at brands its orange with yellow spots etc etc.

If its confusing to us how must it be to the odd spectators or the guy who's thinking of starting and comes along for a look?

I couldn't agree more, the very reason why I started this thread. Wouldn't it be wonderful to have one simple common system for marking out three routes. A,B & C

[austini]

In the UK were the various grade colours in the 60/70's fairly standard throughout the country? or was it always a miss match?

Here in West Aus, grade markers havn't changed since sammy was a glint in his fathers eye!! that must mean the first settlers who arrived on the bounty and unloaded their Bultaco's must of had a uniformed system of grading brought from the mother land.

Ours run from Red (AGrade) Yellow( BGrade) Blue (C&VetsGrade) and White (chicken class) with a smattering of silver for the chairs and intro markers for the small fry!!!!! On the reverse to the markers we put an X so they know the way the gate is pointing and I can honestly say that all riders know exactly where they must ride even inter state riders visiting for national events. Our GCR's (Aussie Rule Book) for all its other faults cleary state the various grades that are uniformly followed throughout Aus.