phb Posted October 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2007 Maybe matts attitude is the reason his local club has had to reduce the number of sections because it cant find enough observers I can guarantee it is nothing to do with that! The reason there is no observers is due to the lack of youth competitiors entering. it seems to be generally middle aged men turning up alone for a ride. not bringing anyone with them.(and rightly so) if we had more youth riders mums and dads(the taxi drivers) will often take an observors board. i dont understand what you mean (and rightly so) i am assuming you mean WHY SHOULD RIDERS BRING A OBSERVER if riders dont bring observers !! who is going to do this part of the trial ? maybe you need to find out why the youth entry has dried up and find away of getting them back into trials or maybe get them back to riding in your club trials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevel Posted October 11, 2007 Report Share Posted October 11, 2007 Matt What would you have said if he was going to punch a 'one'? My guess is you'd have said nothing! It works both ways-and probably more in favour of the rider than against. Just take it on the chin like 99% of riders do and get on with it knowing that next time any genuine error will probably be in your favour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt Posted October 11, 2007 Report Share Posted October 11, 2007 Maybe matts attitude is the reason his local club has had to reduce the number of sections because it cant find enough observers I can guarantee it is nothing to do with that! The reason there is no observers is due to the lack of youth competitiors entering. it seems to be generally middle aged men turning up alone for a ride. not bringing anyone with them.(and rightly so) if we had more youth riders mums and dads(the taxi drivers) will often take an observors board. i dont understand what you mean (and rightly so) i am assuming you mean WHY SHOULD RIDERS BRING A OBSERVER if riders dont bring observers !! who is going to do this part of the trial ? maybe you need to find out why the youth entry has dried up and find away of getting them back into trials or maybe get them back to riding in your club trials. this works both ways i agree. i always take an observer to local club trial to help out and so do others. but if someone wants a day out on the bike while the better half goes shopping then why shouldnt he? usually find the same observers week in week out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt Posted October 11, 2007 Report Share Posted October 11, 2007 Matt What would you have said if he was going to punch a 'one'? My guess is you'd have said nothing! It works both ways-and probably more in favour of the rider than against. Just take it on the chin like 99% of riders do and get on with it knowing that next time any genuine error will probably be in your favour like 99% of riders do......i can guarantee you 100% of the riders at BTC level would have questioned it as i did! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ishy Posted October 11, 2007 Report Share Posted October 11, 2007 1. I no longer observe after many years of observing week in week out in all sorts of weather, simply because of the 'serious abuse' that happens Observer, most valued person on the hill in my opinion, game isn't has much fun without them. If your not riding for a wage, that cuts it down to about four, your just playing like every bugger else. However I have found over the couple of years I have ridden trials, the best way to get the benefit of any doubt, is treat the observer with respect, by all means question a call if you think it's wrong, but except your score without getting p****d and roosting off throwing toys out. I don't know you Matt, but your posts come across in a manner that makes me think you could wind any observer up the wrong way. I think you will see the time when riders have to observe each other full time, and some great events will no longer be possible, because the observer is past or no longer willing to do the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markfitton Posted October 11, 2007 Report Share Posted October 11, 2007 with any sport its the referee who makes the decision some are right and some are wrong. As long as its a consistant decision everything is still fair ( against the rules or not). Things usually even themselves out, your main competitor might have been penalised somewhere else evening things up. Try playing squash with lets and strokes !! where a match can be decided on a bad call. Glad Im at the enjoyment stage and not bothered about winning just in it for the fun. One last thing markers should be appreciated in any situation on a trial for giving up there time so somebody else can ride. I would never treat one disrespectfully even if I did question the score. Most people when tackled in a polite way are responsive but when abused can act in a completely different manner. mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpa3 Posted October 11, 2007 Report Share Posted October 11, 2007 Back to the stall on a rock scenario. Surely it's a five? Any part of the rider or machine onther than the tyres touches the ground then it count's as a dab. If a machine stalls you can restart unless you have a dab whilst doing so, then it's a five. No wonder people don't want to observe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete Posted October 11, 2007 Report Share Posted October 11, 2007 If that was me at a local club trial I would have called that a 5. I understand that at national/international levels its different but with non-stop rules in place that would be my call! Don't observe that much but I do my 1 a year for the club - usually at a place where I don't like riding anyway, or it'll be the annual Twinshock/pre 65 only. Having said that if there is a shortage on the day and no-one else volunteers than I'm willing to muck in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilco Posted October 11, 2007 Report Share Posted October 11, 2007 think they should design the engine's so they won't be able to kick over in gear,that would sort that out. My old man used to observe when i was riding schoolboy's,and boy we was sly the old man's no fool though he used to follow behind us from start to end,he was more shagged at the end of the trial than me There was allway's a line of dad's at the end of the trial at the sign off table complaning about him to COC,The COC was allway's on the old man's side i should add. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eiger Posted October 11, 2007 Report Share Posted October 11, 2007 Having ridden and observed for over twenty years I feel more than able to comment. Matt, have you ever observed at a club trial which is five laps of ten sections with an entry of one hundred riders? I expect not judging by the tone of your posts. That means you have to watch five hundred rides, you reckon you can concentrate and score every ride accurately without error? Well its impossible, other factors affect the ability to concentrate too such as the weather, distractions such as riders mates or parents asking what score you have just recorded, what you are stood on (precariously balanced on a moss covered rock) or whether you have to move several yards for each rider in order to see him/her through the whole section. My parents often observe, recently my Dad who is 71 years young, had a sixteen year old youth giving him some stick over a disputed score, he had two dabs and also had a momentary balance session whilst stationary so in accordance with the rules of the trial he was docked three marks (including one for the stop). The youth was abusive then rode off to his Father who was watching (like a lot do, following their precious offspring round week after week but avoiding an observer board like the plague) and was as equally abusive and swore at my Dad. I'm afraid to say that I'd have had more than words with him if I'd have been there, mouthing off at a 71yr old, no wonder we struggle for observers. I remember observing a Rochdale trial two years ago and got a load of abuse off some spoilt brat who nearly ended up having to have the observer board surgically removed from his anatomy! After calming down I thrust the observer board at him and suggested he had a go, he declined but the attitude changed for the better. These people are the backbone of our sport, Ishy makes a valid point earlier in that we should help and support them, acknowledge them, have a joke with them, include them, and observe from time to time and put a bit back. As a society we increasingly lack respect, its about time we started having a bit more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy Posted October 11, 2007 Report Share Posted October 11, 2007 (edited) matt Today, 8:16amunder the same set off rules you have just quoted from : Failure: when the rider intentionally moves either wheel to the side without maintaining forward motion. this rule clearly doesnt apply to the world championship nor the british championship so how can the balancing on the sump be accurate info if quoted from these rules. the question was asked specifically about these types of trials? Read the original post again. I know i will be probably opening a big can of worms and lots have been said on the subject but i am wondering how many people actually know the rules of observing !!!! or should i say the rules of trials I consider myself to be reasonably good at observing and have observed at the 3 hawkstone rounds and various other high level trials and have been surprised at the questions being asked regarding what is a 5!!! this is not just about observing at world round level but includes all levels of competion, Notice the part about "this is not just about observing at world round level but includes ALL levels of competition." matt Today, 08:16 AM under the same set off rules you have just quoted from : Failure: when the rider intentionally moves either wheel to the side without maintaining forward motion. this rule clearly doesnt apply to the world championship nor the british championship so how can the balancing on the sump be accurate info if quoted from these rules. the question was asked specifically about these types of trials? The rules I posted are only a couple out of our rule book it would be silly to post the entire contents, but in response we are allowed to stop with the engine running (and a foot on the ground for a score of 1 dab). Forward motion must be maintained only if engine has stalled. It is up to the observer as to what they would consider stopping. I.E. 1 second pause or more etc... again I was only showing that rules are different everywhere you go. Know what rules you are riding under. I.E. stop or no stop Edited October 11, 2007 by ZIPPY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gasser Posted October 11, 2007 Report Share Posted October 11, 2007 Read the above with interest .....to my mind you always: Give respect to anyone who has stood to observe ... Often with some humour..... Often week after week...... ......you don't give any of these good folk a hard time ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete Posted October 11, 2007 Report Share Posted October 11, 2007 Read the above with interest .....to my mind you always:Give respect to anyone who has stood to observe ... Often with some humour..... Often week after week...... ......you don't give any of these good folk a hard time ! Here Here!! Got to know quite a few of our regulars so usually have a joke while I walk the section - and a loud thank you on the last lap doesn't hurt either! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pommietrialsnz Posted October 11, 2007 Report Share Posted October 11, 2007 I think it's a pity we can't be honest enough at club level, to exchange cards with someone we are going round with and mark each other! We did it in New Zealand when I was there and there were no problems that I heard of. Everyone was fair and noone tried to take the mickey. Observers were only used for championship rounds. Don't forget most of us are doing this for fun and we know that the score is not that desperately important at the end if we feel we have ridden well and have had a good laugh with our peers, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malibudon Posted October 11, 2007 Report Share Posted October 11, 2007 Matt What would you have said if he was going to punch a 'one'? My guess is you'd have said nothing! It works both ways-and probably more in favour of the rider than against. Just take it on the chin like 99% of riders do and get on with it knowing that next time any genuine error will probably be in your favour This is 100% correct. The vast majority of observer errors are in the rider's favor. If the observers were perfect, we'd all have scores a lot higher! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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