Observing Rules

[scorpa3]

No need to appologise John, I think that it just goes to show- the rules are confusing, a mess and need simplifying.

If we as enthusiasts get muddled up, how can we ever expect the average member of the public (that's to say, new rider, observer or spectator) to have a clue what's going on.

[enrico]

Whilst I am also in favour of 'TSR 22B - No Stop' I think that Telecat sums up the problem in that a large part of the Trials community will still want to ride whatever is chosen for the top levels of the sport. This decision may be age related or ability related, although I fall into the wrong category on both counts, but until the FIM decree no stop for the top levels then I cannot see us getting agreement at National/Centre/Club level.

John - I must say that it is refreshing and helpful to read your points and comments and it gives one the feeling that at least there is a path of communication into the hallowed halls of the ACU for the average clubman.

[rabie]

if i had to answer (gun to my head), TSR22B,

but that's because I'm from a pre65 and sidecar background and am a lowly novice myself. my more general viewpoint is i disagree with offering ACU clubs jsut A or B (and needing special dispensation for "c"). It unnecessary top down interference in the sport at a local level (IMHO). if you (not John Collins, anyone) forced anyone to pick A or B, IMHO you'll see a number of clubs (could be an exodos) go AMCA, ORPA, etc (and we'll have shot ourselves more generally like in the foot like MX and Enduros). IMHO offer "C" in the handbook (and any other marking methods you want) for clarity. we should be an open church. that's just my humble opinion, and i'll shut up now

[scorpa3]

Or even better for clarity... the FIM adopts non stop and so does everyone else.

[audimess]

There's one possible answer to the problem of trials rules, and it needs sorting out sometime.

I propose full no stop and NO CLUTCH TO BE USED IN A SECTION

This would be easier to understand for observers and easier to spot.

Quite simple, clutch = 5.

Any hopping or manouvering of the bike in a section would then be a genuine no-stop piece of action, if a rider gets off line

or hits an obstacle and has to use the clutch in the section then it is quite simply a failure. (The pivot turn would be back in fashion)

The severity of sections would have to be eased to suite, thus closing the gap between the best and worst riders quite nicely

and making the sport more appealing to newcomers.

A real clean on a difficult section would then be a thing of beauty, with the rider having to flow through the section making

any adjustments to his line on the move. Mike Rapley might even be slightly impressed.

The rider would also have to take a lot more care in planning his route through a section as there would be no possibility

of stopping, this would add back into the sport a dimension that has been lost with the modern techniques. Currently good

riders simply disect modern sections taking each obstacle at a time by setting the bike up with a hop and a stop.

Oh by the way, auto clutch's not allowed before anybody starts thinking.

We all know something has to be done, how many times have you been to a trial and witnessed any or all of the following;

1) Riders and or observers are not sure which rules are being used.

2) A rider hops the back wheel outside the natural line of the markers because he is good enough to do so but if you steered

the front wheel in the same place it would be a 5.

3) Riders hop when stationary and get away with it because all the other good riders are doing it.

4) Riders hop backwards and get away with it because all the other good riders are doing it.

I'm not saying anybody is wrong, we all try and get away with what we can, but the current rules are being bent all the time with the

pressure being put on the observer.

You would'nt need time limits in world sections either.

[neil king]

No clutch in a section sound dangerous to me.

[pete]

Yeah I would have to say no clutch wouldn't appeal at all! I think you could well be right in that it would make no-stop much easier to enforce, but at the same time there would be a lot more failures early on in the section from someone getting wrong and not being able to clutch to get them out of trouble - thus leading to lack of interest at higher levels? It could be the answer but I wouldn't welcome it at a club level. Not that I use the clutch much but its nice to know its there!

[phb]

There's one possible answer to the problem of trials rules, and it needs sorting out sometime.

I propose full no stop and NO CLUTCH TO BE USED IN A SECTION

This would be easier to understand for observers and easier to spot.

Quite simple, clutch = 5.

if no clutch allowed then i and lots of other riders would probably have a 5 on most sections, i cannot see how this would work as to get up a reasonable sized step i would need to use the clutch as do a lot of riders.

[bilco]

Drum brake's,Twinshock's,make the bike heavier,that's the only way forward.

[rabie]

my pre 65 sidecar has two clutch settings, in or out - there is no clutch use really in sections just creeping round tight stuff then blast! but that's why pre65 is so good to watch

technology is where it is, we can't hide from that i'm afraid

[scorpa3]

I can ride non stop, I enjoy non stop and prefer to ride under non stop rules. However I wouldn't enjoy riding without a clutch one little bit.

[slapshot 3]

no clutch...I flipping kill myself...

[john collins]

I feared this would turn into a debate - and I probably did not help by messing up the numbers - but can we return to the request for " One set of rules"

Despite my mix up with TSR's it is fairly obvious that of about 12 - 14 who have replied - I have to say when you look at the number of views - this is not exactly a high number - it is clear that No- Stop is the clear winner.

Sorry - I feel going down the road of No - Clutch will just complicate things for me - so please carry on the debate on that one - but leave me out of it!

So let us make the assumption that the 12-14 who replied - are now the Committee making this decision?

Without excepetion from these replies - everyone tends to think that No - Stop - should be the only set of rules available to ACU Organisers and ACU riders.

Now a few givens:

There is no chance whatsover of FIM rules changing from present ones in 2008 - and not probably for predicatable future.

Let us not waste time debating it - it is a fact

All other contries as far as I know are using FIM rules.

So - if the 15 above decide to go for one set of rules - we must by definition change the British Solo Adult Championship to No -Stop.

Last year we sent out to al the riders who contest it - and there was a clear majority reply for FIM rules.

We asked the Organisrs who run it - and again a clear majority for FIM rules.

So - at this level - our riders want it and the people who organise the trial want it ( I obviously talk about majority)

We have quite a few riders - who are contesting FIM World Champ - at Junior and Senior level - they all wish to ride on FIM rules at home.

We have even more riders who contest the European Championship - and they all wish to ride under FIM at home.

At World and European level - we continue to turn out Champions in the Youth/Junior - all these riders confirm they wish to ride under FIM rules at home.

Dougie if you ask him - as always been quite adamant that anyone who wishes to contest FIM/UEM should ride under the same rules at home

But of course - we know most of this - the big question is now - for the 12 - 15 who replied and now form our hyperthetical committee - in order to move to one set of rules - do we immediately change the Adult Brit Solo Championship to No-Stop.

There can only be two possible answers for this Committee - Yes - Or No

Over to you guys.

[scorpa3]

NO.

You reeled me in with this one John... hook line and watsit.

Considering the points you make about the British Championship etc we should be looking at one set of rules for all.... FIM. And we all know that isn't going to work for lots of reasons, so we are back to at least two sets or rules. Drat!

Non stop is only going to work for all if the FIM adopt it; which leaves our comittee (the imaginary TC one or the real ACU one) in a real pickle.

[john collins]

It actually gets worse Scorpa - for I am far from sure how we can stick with two.

Many Youth Organisers - especially Youth Champ ones - are asking that Youth Champ be run under FIM - for same reasons.

I think everyone accepts we must keep No-Stop - and many events run under this inc S/Miller, Classic, Sidecar and so on.

Additionaly - the bulk of the country seem to be fairly happy with TSR 22A ( got it right this time) - I know down my end of world for normal Centre Trials this works well - we certainly have no desire to go to FIM for our normal events - but neither do we wish to go ful No -Stop although we have tried this - and of course run our Trail Bike Champ under it. For normal everyday trials we just do not find that full No-Stop is that easy to Observe. I know it perhaps should be - but down here it is not - and Observers are reluctant to give a 5 for that inevitable pause - wheras they will give a 1 - although I admit even that often seems to be happening less than it should.

I will not add an more until we see the other replies