whiz Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Hi folks I have been following the ramblings on this subject for some time, well done Mr Rappley for stirring the pot, I have very little knowledge about Pre 65 bikes or Pre 65 trials, I love going to Kinlochleven to watch the old bikes I couldn`t tell a trcked up Ariel from bog standard and I`m sure I am not the only one standing watching who is in the same boat. I dont care if it`s tricked up or not because I dont know I`m just gratefull they are still there to be admired. I/we go to watch old bikes because they are old bikes and it is great to see them still in action so perhaps the sillouette argument is a good one. I can`t help feeling that the Pre 65 exists because the organisers choose to lay it on therefore, they make the rules, they decide on elligability and they should choose where the trickery ends, just as they should decide who rides it. At the end of the day when you post off your entry application you should be hoping that you get an "invite" to ride what must be one of the best trials of its type anywhere. I may be wrong but how many Pre65 or twinshocks would there be out there if no mods were allowed, I`m talking club trials as well here. If you went to a twinshock trial tommorrow with a tape measure how many peg hieghts would be standard? even if that is the only mod it is no longer standard only the organising committe have the right to say what they will allow and we must respect that and if they choose to allow a bike that you feel is not in the spirit of things then tough. . Some of the posts here would seem to be borne out of sour grapes "He got a ride I didn`t" others out of dissapointment, that dissapointment would be a lot less if the organisers sent out 180 invites to ride the trial.Pehaps some system iwould be possible for registering an interest in riding and the organisers can take it from there. It is their trial, lets all be gratefull for its existance. Whiz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchie Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Well done " Whiz" of course its sour grapes, people are rightly rather cross......... that they enter year in and year out and don t get an entry, then lo and behold the same old names pop up on the list of runners and riders. Also if you cant tell the difference between an old Ariel and one of those new , old Ariels I suggest a trip down to Spec savers....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g4321 Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 P65 Scottish rules are pretty spot on to me, great variety of bikes and standard of riders competing. I do not want to watch 180 super trick multi thousand pound cub/james/FB or C15 REPLICAS but enjoy watching a wide variety of bikes. Lets face it the skill level of the top 20 is light years away from the bottom 20. Bikes like Honda 90's , Douglas twins and rigid bantams all add to the variety. Forget about a 'must just look like a p65 trial' Eligibility, yes ballot for most places but the top guys should be given a ride (if bike is eligible) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiz Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 hello again Also if you cant tell the difference between an old Ariel and one of those new , old Ariels I suggest a trip down to Spec savers....... they selling x-ray specs now Whiz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stickinthemud Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 Sorry Rappers - can't agree. As soon as riders are accepted on ability, far more younger good riders will suddenly see it as more of a challenge, a bit of a laugh and find, beg or borrow an old machine - just as Roger Williams did a few years ago to name just one. And look how his win went down! Lead balloons come to mind. Even fewer of your regular pre65 riders would get an entry. The standard of the sections would have to rise pushing the need for cheque book specials even higher. Not what the event is looking for. (I don't understand why your criteria is not applied to the SSDT though) On the other hand, I can't agree either with OTF that the entire entry should be balloted. The event needs names, characters, machine variety etc to attract Jo public. So where does that leave us? As I see it this leaves us with: Well known riders getting entries. Riders on unusual machines (providing they qualify) add interest and are welcome. Big old pre-units are the most attractive to spectators and are always welcome. Rigids are welcome so we can all scratch our heads and ask - Why? Would you dare? Riders who have been doing the event for several years get entries on the grounds of loyalty and friendship. Ladies on trials irons are always an attraction (even to us over 50s) so lets have a smattering. Overseas riders are always encouraged as they generally boost the local economy by bringing more guests and stay longer than many of the 3 night visitors from the UK. Trade riders are accepted as many sponsor and have supported the event for several years. Who don't they want? Riders who have broken the rules, been rude/verbal/unreasonable with club officials/observers. Lots of riders on machines that look and sound alike ie Cubs, James/FBs etc (That rules me out then) So who does that leave? Probably about 40 or 50 to go into the ballot. No surprise then that this is what we have already!!! Fair play to the Committee for that then. What could be done to make selection seem fairer by tweaking the entry criteria? Personally I would prefer to see a bias towards older riders. Big J says probably rightly that riders can't by law be selected on the grounds of age. I think that is a shame. How long will riders inc you John be capable of competing in the event let alone on a big pre unit? Younger riders still have lots of years left of competitive riding. Their time will come. So I hear you say, the old b****ers are dying off. There would be no-one left. That's not what I see at the Yorkshire Classic/Red Rose events. There are several younger riders all enjoying the old bangers. This is the grass roots. Lots of those 400 bikes brought out to be given an airing. (and they have to 'look' like pre65 bikes including gaiters/sleeves on the forks to cover the shiny bit). It's a bit like steam engines. There will always be an interest due to the character of the old bikes. I also reckon that anyone with a ride in the SSDT should not be considered as they are just being greedy! Sorry Carlos. A Twinshock Event? I doubt that this would ever be a realistic option as they mostly sound alike. A procession of Bultos, Monts, Ossas, Yams Fantics, Suzies, Hondas, etc would not have the same attraction - but they probably said that about the pre65! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big john Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 Personally I would prefer to see a bias towards older riders. Big J says probably rightly that riders can't by law be selected on the grounds of age. I think that is a shame. How long will riders inc you John be capable of competing in the event let alone on a big pre unit? Younger riders still have lots of years left of competitive riding. Their time will come. I'll answer that bit seing that it was directed at myself if you don't mind! I am quite happy to state here that I am 50 years of age (turned 50 recently) and I give myself a few more years riding, if I'm fortunate enough to be accepted. I have already stated on here that I have absolutely no problem with some younger riders coming along to ride the Pre-65 Scottish trial in fact they should be encouraged. It's not every youngster that likes old bikes. Personally, I first rode the Pre65 Scottish when I was 37 years of age and I have thoroughly enjoyed the rides that I was granted. I did consider entering this year on my B40 (I do have a selection of bikes I could ride, including a 1964 Short Stroke AJS) but I thought I would ride the Matchless again as several folk have said to me it wouldn't be the same. One day soon, I will not be sending off my entry form for the Pre-65, but it may be for reasons other than not being able to get a genuine Pre-unit Matchless round Kinlochleven...... Anyway this thread has done our club a favour as a number of guys have expressed an interest in the Highland Classic 2 Day for Pre-65; Specials and Twinshocks, nice one Rappers, fancy it? See below! Big John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted February 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 Anyway this thread has done our club a favour as a number of guys have expressed an interest in the Highland Classic 2 Day for Pre-65; Specials and Twinshocks, nice one Rappers, fancy it? See below! Sorry to butt in on the fighting John - remind me of this event nearer the time. There's no world round on that weekend so I might come up for it (are you buying the beers?!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big john Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 Sorry to butt in on the fighting John - remind me of this event nearer the time. There's no world round on that weekend so I might come up for it (are you buying the beers?!) There's some Free beer Andy! Big John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapshot 3 Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 There's some Free beer Andy!Big John do volunteer observers get any..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big john Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 Probably! Big John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2fargone Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 I think Roger rode his Fathers bike in the trial not a begged or borrowed one, incidentally 'it was' pretty much all Pre65 too and with all due respect it was one of the more uncompetitive machines in the entry. Ok yes he 'was' one of the younger riders but credit where credit's due, he managed to get the old girl round which in itself was quite an achievement. Not only that, at the end of the 2 days he had put his feet down less than anyone else. 'Disbelief' more than 'Lead Balloon' was the general opinion I thought, could be wrong though ???? Anyway don't let it spoil your big day Rog! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 There's some Free beer Andy!Big John Somebody mention free beer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big john Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 I think Roger rode his Fathers bike in the trial not a begged or borrowed one, incidentally 'it was' pretty much all Pre65 too and with all due respect it was one of the more uncompetitive machines in the entry. Ok yes he 'was' one of the younger riders but credit where credit's due, he managed to get the old girl round which in itself was quite an achievement. Not only that, at the end of the 2 days he had put his feet down less than anyone else. 'Disbelief' more than 'Lead Balloon' was the general opinion I thought, could be wrong though ???? Anyway don't let it spoil your big day Rog! Actually Roger being his good humoured self, said at the presentation of his win, that he did it "for a bit of a laugh" and the old guard didn't like the quip! The bike in question wasn't very trick either, in fact it had a total loss ignition fitted which was an effort in itself to nurse it round! I have the utmost respect for Roger Harvey Williams as an accomplished rider who enjoys his trialing, on that particular occassion he was misunderstood by an older generation. Needless to say he hasn't entered since! Big John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikespace Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 I think Roger rode his Fathers bike in the trial not a begged or borrowed one, incidentally 'it was' pretty much all Pre65 too and with all due respect it was one of the more uncompetitive machines in the entry. Ok yes he 'was' one of the younger riders but credit where credit's due, he managed to get the old girl round which in itself was quite an achievement. Not only that, at the end of the 2 days he had put his feet down less than anyone else. 'Disbelief' more than 'Lead Balloon' was the general opinion I thought, could be wrong though ???? Anyway don't let it spoil your big day Rog! To be honest, he might still have a bit of a fringe and use the odd sunbed but I used to ride against Roger, and I think he was about the same age as me, so I reckon even if you make it over 40, he's still in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiley Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 Big John quote. Anyway this thread has done our club a favour as a number of guys have expressed an interest in the Highland Classic 2 Day for Pre-65; Specials and Twinshocks, nice one Rappers, fancy it? Sounds good, Another two Day in Scotland can't wait to enter and head north, No upset rejected riders a good bit of Craig Ride the machine of your choice without any back biting or ' that's a bit trick ' ban it. I would say though the specials class is going to be very very competitive but as long as everyone behaves themselves tis going to be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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