Gasgas 280 Makes A Strange Noise

[snerk]

I bought a 2002 GasGas 280 txt pro and ufortunantly couldnt use it more than a couple of days before the spring that resets the gear pedal/lever broke. The sound im talking of came after the first time I opened the side of the bike where the clutch is. I have opened and reassembled the bike about 6-7 times now and tried with and without the new spring. By the way, I have not opened up the bike other than from the side where the clutch is. Does anyone have any suggestions?

You can download a clip of the bike and the sound HERE

[gjbiker]

Hi Snerk,

Does the sound go away when you disengage the clutch?

Is the kickstart return spring located in the correct hole?

Is the water pump drive in good condition?

Is the water pump working?

Are all the thrust washers and bearings on the clutch shaft there and installed in the right order?

Does everything look and feel to be in good condition when the clutch casing is off?

Was the noise present when the spring broke or only after you'd reassembled with the new spring?

With the clutch pulled in does the noise speed up when you rev the engine?

If you won the lottery would you go halfs with me?

GJ

[snerk]

Hi Snerk,

1.Does the sound go away when you disengage the clutch?

2.Is the kickstart return spring located in the correct hole?

3.Is the water pump drive in good condition?

4.Is the water pump working?

5.Are all the thrust washers and bearings on the clutch shaft there and installed in the right order?

6.Does everything look and feel to be in good condition when the clutch casing is off?

7.Was the noise present when the spring broke or only after you'd reassembled with the new spring?

8.With the clutch pulled in does the noise speed up when you rev the engine?

9.If you won the lottery would you go halfs with me?

GJ

1. The sound changes slightly but still the same noise and a lot of it.

2. Yes.

3. I broke the water pump drive the first time because i didnt place it correctly. However I have a new one now, correctly installed.

4. Yes, Im positive it works now. However I almost havent used the bike at all since the problems started a month ago in fear of doing damage.

5. Yes.

6. No. There are some damage inside, probably from the broken spring, since I cant see what of the parts would hit the casing. Ill get back to you with some pictures.

7. There was a distinct noise, like that of metal in a blender, but it wasnt the same as now, I believe.

8. Yes.

9. No. However, if I can fix the bike thanks to your technical assistance, Ill make you a nice drawing.

By the way, I have to force the clutch pack in and out with screw drivers and hammering. When i see the GasGas on youtube guy do the same, he can gently pull it at and place it back in.

Edited May 29, 2009 by Snerk

[gjbiker]

There was a distinct noise, like that of metal in a blender

This was BEFORE the spring broke? If so-not sounding good

If you've checked and double checked all the aforementioned components then it's looking like a complete strip down to find the source?

Wait for some more replies though, there's a wealth of experience on here and some trained ear may diagnose from your wmv clip?

GJ

[snerk]

This was BEFORE the spring broke? If so-not sounding good

If you've checked and double checked all the aforementioned components then it's looking like a complete strip down to find the source?

Wait for some more replies though, there's a wealth of experience on here and some trained ear may diagnose from your wmv clip?

GJ

Sorry, I should have been clearer. No, that is after the spring broke, but before I opened the bike and cleaned out the broken spring.

Ive checked most most of the things around the clutch, and I cant tell if the damages that are there havent been there from before I opened it. There is one thing I forgot to mention, on the waterpump gear I broke of one of the "tooths" while trying to get the whole clutch pack out. If that is what is causing it, can I remove it without going further into the engine?

http://bildr.no/view/408698

http://bildr.no/view/408700

http://bildr.no/view/408701

These pictures are from before I changed the water pump axis. BTW, on picture #2 There are two spots ive marked. I had put the red material on both places because of some previous grinding marks, and as you can see in #1 it has loosened. But I dont know if thats just the movement inside that has done it.

[kevhenson]

does it get any quieter if you pull the clutch and put it in gear?

[gjbiker]

Good photos (apart from the blurry one).

My prognosis is ; Without meaning to offend in any way, I think you may need to get someone with a bit more experience to take a look and help you out here? The fine application of instant gasket is an art in itself

As for the broken tooths (teeth?) I reckon a replacement part is the way forward regardless of how much work is involved

It's all a learning curve as we all know, but you'll get there in the end I'm sure.

GJ

[snerk]

does it get any quieter if you pull the clutch and put it in gear?

No, its still makes the horrid sound while riding it, unfortunantly.

Good photos (apart from the blurry one).

My prognosis is ; Without meaning to offend in any way, I think you may need to get someone with a bit more experience to take a look and help you out here? The fine application of instant gasket is an art in itself

As for the broken tooths (teeth?) I reckon a replacement part is the way forward regardless of how much work is involved

It's all a learning curve as we all know, but you'll get there in the end I'm sure.

GJ

Yeah, its hard to get the camera to focus on all those parts, ill see if I can get some better ones.

You are right, the only mechanical experience I have is from the last month with this bike. The thing is, i have had one experienced rider and a couple of friends with mechanical aptitude to look at it, and the last remaining option they suggest would be the broken tooth on the gear, since thats the only apparent thing thats left, that i have messed with. Do I have to crack open the engine replace the waterpump gear?

Unfortunantly, getting someone professional to fix it is very, very expensive, especially in my country. (And the only official GasGas dealer is on the other side of the country.)

Any more help and suggestions are welcome, even if they are farfetched.

Edited May 29, 2009 by Snerk

[jordi]

Have a look at the kickstart idler wheel and the quandrant gear, if they are marked it will be noisey.

[jse]

Have a look at the kickstart idler wheel and the quandrant gear, if they are marked it will be noisey.

That's also a possibility.

Here's another possibility, a quick look at the photo indicated that the screws holding the spring on the clutch are non-standard. The 02' came with 3mm buttonhead screws that stripped out the first time you tried to take them out, so I'm not surprized they were replaced. The 03' on uses a special GG 7mm 12-point screw that has a head only a couple of mm's high, so if the replacement slotted screws that are in the clutch now have a higher head they would probably hit the inside of the sidecover (notice the groove by the waterpump inside the case) and THAT would sure sound like a box of rocks in a washing machine.

The clutch hub is a tight fit on the shaft sometimes and if it was not pushed down to it's stop all the way (tapped lightly with a punch to settle it on the shaft), it would protrude and the screw heads would contact the inside of the sidecover.

The special clutch screws are part number "MT280332077" and you will need 10 of them.

Jon

[diligaf]

Have you looked at the bearings on the inside of the clutch "the clutch bearings". There are two of them and being needle bearings when you worked on the spring maybe the bearing was damaged or maybe you only put one back. Have you torqued the clutch hub bolt correctly?. If you have done this then maybe the problem is elsewhere in the engine it has to be there are no more bearings on this side that would be that noisy.

[snerk]

Have a look at the kickstart idler wheel and the quandrant gear, if they are marked it will be noisey.

Im at work so I havent looked at it today, but I do remember that both are damaged to some extent. Since it was already damaged when I opened it I havent really thought about it, but I guess the broken spring might have damaged them. Is there ayone of you who know if I have to open the bike further to get these gears out?

That's also a possibility.

Here's another possibility, a quick look at the photo indicated that the screws holding the spring on the clutch are non-standard. The 02' came with 3mm buttonhead screws that stripped out the first time you tried to take them out, so I'm not surprized they were replaced. The 03' on uses a special GG 7mm 12-point screw that has a head only a couple of mm's high, so if the replacement slotted screws that are in the clutch now have a higher head they would probably hit the inside of the sidecover (notice the groove by the waterpump inside the case) and THAT would sure sound like a box of rocks in a washing machine.

The clutch hub is a tight fit on the shaft sometimes and if it was not pushed down to it's stop all the way (tapped lightly with a punch to settle it on the shaft), it would protrude and the screw heads would contact the inside of the sidecover.

The special clutch screws are part number "MT280332077" and you will need 10 of them.

Jon

You are right about the screws and its me that replaced them. They are not the ones making the sounds, since I replaced them about the 3rd time I reassembled the bike.

Just a unrelated question, can you order separate parts in the country youre from or do you have to order complete sets of parts?

Have you looked at the bearings on the inside of the clutch "the clutch bearings". There are two of them and being needle bearings when you worked on the spring maybe the bearing was damaged or maybe you only put one back. Have you torqued the clutch hub bolt correctly?. If you have done this then maybe the problem is elsewhere in the engine it has to be there are no more bearings on this side that would be that noisy.

I only know of 1 bearing and it is not damaged, you can see it here in the parts list: http://bildr.no/view/421644

I dont know if ive torqued it correctly, what would be the wrong and the right way to do it?

[gjbiker]

If you look at the parts page you've linked, item 20 is the primary transmission gear. Is this the one with the damaged teeth/tooths/tooth? This is the gear that slides over the splines on the end of the crank and held in place with a circlip (the splined crank end is also the drive for the water pump and if this part is damaged it's a split and remove crank job). If the primary gear is damaged it's easily replaced. Basically, if any part is damaged or worn looking, replace it.

Have you religiously watched all these wmv files? 'Handy Vids'

Don't know about parts availability in your country (where do you live and where did you get the new spring?) but all the items you see in the parts manual should be available from somewhere, somehow (unless you need a piston, I've heard they're currently hard to get?).

Oh, and go easy with the instant gasket, better still, don't use it. A THIN smear of blue hylomar is normally sufficient.

GJ

[jordi]

Im at work so I havent looked at it today, but I do remember that both are damaged to some extent. Since it was already damaged when I opened it I havent really thought about it, but I guess the broken spring might have damaged them. Is there ayone of you who know if I have to open the bike further to get these gears out?

No, you can change them now that you have the clutch casing off.

[snerk]

If you look at the parts page you've linked, item 20 is the primary transmission gear. Is this the one with the damaged teeth/tooths/tooth? This is the gear that slides over the splines on the end of the crank and held in place with a circlip (the splined crank end is also the drive for the water pump and if this part is damaged it's a split and remove crank job). If the primary gear is damaged it's easily replaced. Basically, if any part is damaged or worn looking, replace it.

Have you religiously watched all these wmv files? 'Handy Vids'

Don't know about parts availability in your country (where do you live and where did you get the new spring?) but all the items you see in the parts manual should be available from somewhere, somehow (unless you need a piston, I've heard they're currently hard to get?).

Oh, and go easy with the instant gasket, better still, don't use it. A THIN smear of blue hylomar is normally sufficient.

GJ

Thanks for the videos, I havent seen others apart from the ones on youtube.

I live in Norway, and parts are available but unfortunantly expensive when buying parts for GasGas. The spring I got is for a Beta, and it works. I would like to point out once again that its not the spring thats causing the sound and the problems. The Beta spring cost 50 NOK\8 USD and would have cost roughly 1500 NOK\240 USD if I had ordered the set from the GasGas dealer. They dont sell separate parts.

Yes it is the primary transmission gear and the kickstart idler gear that are the damaged ones. The idler gear was easy to get off, but how do I get the primary transmission gear off?

Heres is another crappy picture without the clutch pack in: http://bildr.no/view/422341

(I would recommend you download it to your desktop, so you can see it in properly in your image viewer.)

Now you can see why I need the instant gasket and why I need a lot. The sides are starting to get more and more damaged from prying out the clutch pack.

Ill check with GasGas tomorrow to see how much they charge for the gears.