treevor Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 Howdo Guys, First time posting for me, but I have been looking for ages. I own 4 Fantics, 2 x 125s and 2x 200s and a load of bits. I have been riding the 200s for quite a while and have never been over happy with the low end pull, it seems to gas up slightly and then doesn't really pull that strong. Its a b****r to start when hot and won't tick over I decided I was going to get some new piston rings in it and rang Bill Pye who told me that if it had 2 rings in it it was a Suzuki TS 185 piston in a bored out barrel. Can anyone shed any light on this and if its correct do I need to change the jetting as he tells me it takes it to over 200cc. After talking to him for a while he asked me to measure some of the spare barrels I have and see if there was a 156cc amongst them. He told me that he had heard his customers say that they found more traction with the smaller engine. I found one with a good bore and a suitable piston and ring, I did the swap this afternoon and have just been out on it tonight. What a transformation, ticks over no probs, pulling climbs in 3rd which I struggled to do in 2nd on the bigger bore and chugging off camber turns that were impossible before and I only have to wave my boot at it and it starts. Now, I have decided to get the linered barrel rebored and want to know if anyone can send me in the right direction to jet it, I fancy making the other 200 into a 200cc+ Thanks in advance Treevor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilc0 Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 it was a Suzuki TS 185 piston in a bored out barrel. Did you find a fairly thick made up base gasket. I have the suzuki conversion in my 200. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treevor Posted July 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 It had a crude alloy spacer, about 3mm thick on it bilc0 Do you know what cc it makes it? What jet sizes do you use? T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee harris Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 (edited) Hi treeevor, many people, myself included, think the ts 185 version of the 200 fanny was crap. Bilco has one so may differ. I think he has an oko fitted. As you have found out, the std bore and 156cc works very well. Fantic was the first with a nicosil alu barrel and with close clearances and constant expansion rate for barrel and piston, the bike was great and did not rattle when worn or hot like the monts or bultos of the time. (std clearanve when new was 0,035mm piston to bore). If you have a new iron liner you will need 0,07mm to start and with very little wear it will rattle like a bag of nails. Fantic did a 175 conversion for the works boys but kept the nikosil. The pistons were one offs from asso and were never made in numbers but the motor is great...I have one. I would stay with standard if it were me. lee Edited July 16, 2009 by Lee Harris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilc0 Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 (edited) Yep that's the suzuki piston,if your going to fit another suzy piston that alloy spacer must go back on and your need to cut the piston down abit,you will also find that the head has been machined to take the dome of the suzy piston. As far as i know im running a 185cc im still on the standard bore and just about get away with the standard 156cc jetting,but if you need to bore out you might need to look at the jetting. You can tell you've got a bit more under the throttle which is nice,personaly i like the conversion,it worked out for me but as Lee say's alot of peep's don't get on with it. Click here These are the people that done mine,there very good and know what need's to be done. No Lee,i've just put a brand new Dellorto on,im not sure if the oko's have the ok for the 200's yet so i played it safe this time around,the old carb was on the bike since new,so im looking forward to testing the bike with the new Dell on. Edited July 16, 2009 by bilc0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treevor Posted July 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Thanks for comments guys, much appreciated. After doing come searching I found this on the web http://www.scooterhelp.com/tuning/defs.ccs.html#cc_calc It tells me that the cc would be 167 with a bore of 64mm and stroke of 52mm. It would of thought the standard jetting to be ok with only a 10cc increase. Maybe I had an air leak on the alloy barrel spacer or somewhere but I used a jointing compound when I built it up. I checked the cylinder heads out bilc0 and found the one I was using was machined out way different to the standard one so much that could of/would of lessened the compression making for the bad starting. In fact of the 5 heads that I have there are 4 different profiles. So next week when the rebored one comes back I will try it with a standard head and see how it performs. Thanks again Will keep you posted T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilc0 Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 the one I was using was machined out way different to the standard If the top of the suzuki piston dome sit's inside the machined head then this is correct,you don't want to use a standard head on this conversion,your pop a hole straight into the piston. Send the barrel and head off,and just slip a note in asking to check the head for suitability. I normally put aload of gasket sealant between the engine case and alloy spacer then get some gasket paper and cut it to the shape of your spacer,then fit the gasket to the top of the spacer then lower your barrel down,that will seal it nice. Did you find a head gasket when you stripped down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treevor Posted July 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Yup, head gasket was in there, looks like the standard Fantic one compairing it to the gasket set I got from Bill Pye. Anyone know what the compression ratio should be. Lee, I've been looking at your "High Boy" pics and got all twitchy, I can feel a grinder session coming on. Do you think there is any benifit in converting to a floating rear brake on these. It made a world of difference to my DH bike and motocrosser T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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