Week 142 - Why We Remember

[Andy]

One of the demands of a columnist is to create wherever possible, and as reasonably as possible, a piece that brings forth replies, either for or against the subject, and as many as possible. To this end, on Trials Central, there have been many subjects in Centrally Speaking. Some have created an enormous response, others barely a tweet

Over the years I have written many columns or articles that try to reflect public opinion, or indeed my opinion, about riding trials on Remembrance Sunday. This year I had decided to give it a miss, after all the arguments both for and against are well known, and those who hold their respective views are unlikely to change.

But following some posts that were made to this site as far back as 2005, there have been further additions some four years later, so for that reason alone the subject is not forgotten.

And I think much has changed in the four years since that subject was so adequately covered in 2005. The argument for not riding on Remembrance Sunday is to recognise the ultimate price paid by those who fought in the two World Wars, particularly the Despatch Riders who lost their lives, so eloquently written earlier this week by Stecks. Those who would like to ride on Remembrance Sunday suggest that all proceeds from any event should be donated to the British Legion. Both have their merits, but what has changed since the argument was aired in 2005 is that Britain is currently engaged in a war (Afghanistan) in which a large number of British service personnel are dying.

I

[gizza5]

But what I have written before and what I will almost certainly write again, how do we, as a sport, get over the problem of there being only EIGHT riders on the hard course, and 104 on the Clubman course?

I think a lot of the top riders were maybe at the Dirt Bike Show, but even so if most turned out it wouldn't have boosted the entry that much? so I don't have an answer !

Some might say that some of the top clubby riders should move up, but 2nd and 3rd places were occupied by over 40 riders and they have done their bit.

Well done Manchester 17 MCC good trial as usual.

[fivemeister]

how do we, as a sport, get over the problem of there being only EIGHT riders on the hard course, and 104 on the Clubman course?

I'd bet that there were at least another 25 who were capable of tackling the hard course but didn't because of increased potential for damage / injury when they had to get up on Monday and go to work.

[nigel dabster]

I'd bet that there were at least another 25 who were capable of tackling the hard course but didn't because of increased potential for damage / injury when they had to get up on Monday and go to work.

How does that apply to Andy Cripps then?

[toeneybow]

always amazes me how rappers and other people write columbs or posts, some of many length and ppl must read it all, then reply to one or two lines of the whole post!! their right yes, but in my opinion generally reflects there real life, dont care about anything, but what directly effects them, and no desire to see a point or problem or whatever from another's angle....

i personally think rappers is wrong on his previous stance and always have, maybe 15years service doesnt help my thought process, but to now change his mind makes the mind boggle, you mention two world wars and not being born, now i no historian but there has been wars since then and ongoing, involving death and serious injury and bereavement to many families. so what has changed.... to actually change your mind? cause the reasons dont stack up. its called respect for one day, giving up one day for all those who gave there life for your 364 days of fun. enough said you get my point, will add one other thing, while the riders take a day off, some reluctantly!!! the workers of many centres will still be working, meeting for agm's so riders can still ride for, yes you guessed it, 364 days of the year!!

my second point is your question to low turn outs on national courses..... winners score doesnt look too bad, but how hard did he have to try for 14, is the true answer, looking from outside in it doesnt look too bad, think low entry numbers can happen for a few reasons on hard course, previous year maybe being too hard(not saying this one was, just an example) time of year, this one being a saturday, people riding another national and finding too hard so moving to easy course here as precaution whether right or wrong, prob other reasons too, but would say main reason is they generall far too hard nationals as a whole. this drives more people onto easy course and makes hard course worse as it then dont scrub in either.... untill hard courses are sorted country wide then you wont solve problem, what is even more annoying is the course clubs alter is then the easy course to make it harder cause it got better riders on it now....... is that irish or is it me????? when will clubs see sence and put dougie lampkin sections in when he turns up and leave them out when he doesnt..... im sure you get my point. most of the good big events dont lack riders, they just not riding the hard course, simple problem to solve..... do it as the saying goes!!

as for people bitching about what courses people ride i would say two things, concentrate on your own ride, and dont judge peoples decision when you have the knowledge of how hard or easy the day was, people have to make that choice on entering, not half way round or after the finish...

last thing, honest.... whilst you always get the right winner on the hard course and he gets all the headlines, you rareley get the right winner on the easy course and the wrong person always gets the plaudits..... thats the real injustice of a hard course thats set way too hard, joe average suffers!!!

[copemech]

I am basically stupid, and things are different here, Veterans day is the coming remembrance, and I hope to see my old freind Harold, an 80 something WWII vet. He still gets round to see us, and we try to keep him entertained !

I hate to see lives being lost in Afganistan, the country in which the primary exoprt product is WHAT? Tell me again someone, please!

Can any country just put ONE soldier in there to replace the one who just lost his life? If for no other reason than to protect your own youth from the horrids of the drug addictions that translate into the thousands, not to mention the dead , from this ! Go figure the odds! Yea just a simple Poppy farmer!

Thanks, but we do not need your product, gomf--k yourself! We will help you!

[dave_askham]

I won't go into the riding or not riding debate, but just so you know I am in the not riding camp for all the good reasons that can be raised for the argument, however I do respect the opinions and suggestions of others in favour, but just simply don't agree.

Now onto the topic of how to sort out the world of trials, I wonder if an extreme trials world championship would be the way to go, much like the enduro brigade have done with the likes of Hells Gate, Erzeberg et al.

I wonder if it would be possible to include a selection of indoor extreme trials and set sections sufficiently difficult to ensure Tony Bou has to pop a foot down more than twice an evening, coupled with a selection of outdoor extreme trials, similar in stature to the scott, or any other extreme outdoor trial you care to mention, put them all together, limit the entry to a smallish number and put together a championship for the elite few who have the ability to ride in such events. There would be sufficient interest to generate sponsorship money and TV interest I would suspect, whilst allowing the lesser mortals to compete to a standard that would suit their (slightly lesser ability).

Then, with the 'standard' world/national championships, allow the sections to be eased to allow for a proper entry of quality riders, go back to the good old non stop and give the riders a competition with sections that are suitable for the class, allowing a good number of competitors to stand a chance of getting through a section without carrying their bike on their back !!! I am sure there would be a great deal more interest and willingness to have a go at a world/national championship if the majority of the field had a chance of making it 5 feet past the starts cards of any given section.

Now before someone asks what would we do with the Extreme Trials stars turning up and romping home for a clear round, well, I would allow them to ride as their presence would clearly attract the crowds, but I would either not allow them to take points, or have then disadvantaged in some way, with a 50 point starting score ( or something similar ) to bring them back in reach of a good ride from a good rider. or hows about..... having all the events from the 2 championships on the same days throughout the year !!! you can't be in two places at once...

Now I know the suggestion is not perfect, I have not thought through every for and against, but clearly something has to occur. I am not surprised in the slightest that many people who may have fancied a go at trials riding, who turn up to a world round for a look and to see what it is all about, drive home thinking of an alternative pass time !!! you need to have balls of steel to tackle the easy half of what the elite few can achieve, never mind the tough bits and any normal person would need a fortnight off work just to get over it, never mind the danger of crashing and injury.

I am sure that the same person popping to a standard world championship, who saw riders actually ride the bike, not, hop, skip and balance their way over any obstacles would almost think he had a chance of giving this a go and enquiring about the next steps of obtaining and riding trials bike himself.

Lets be honest, there is not a huge number of trials fanatics in the world today, especially when you compare it against foolsball and say snooker or cricket, so we must realise that most of the great but not elite riders generally have a full time job, wife, kids?? and a mortgage or other commitments which do not go away if you have a broken leg and are laid in hospital, as such we need to set up the competitions to suit the riders we would like to compete..... I notice that the World Enduro Championship didn't make their course twice as difficult when the likes of Dave Knight started to blitz the opposition, to a point where the other 40 out of 50 riders could not get around.... they just carried on largely as normal and sat back in awe of his skills... as do most of us !!

I'm almost certain someone will stop me waffling and point out I am a fool for some plainly obvious reason, but I am prepared to be made to look foolish, so here goes....

[toeneybow]

i thnik you make some good points and sure some will take you to task on some things you say, but i think the points you are making are on the right road if not quite perfect, but you do point that out yourself. there is many things that could happen, its just a case of how willing all parties are to change and firstly accepting that what exists isnt right. one thing i would like to see or arrange is a venue, with various types of sections and various difficulties being set and riders invited from all abilities to attend on invite basis from the top world level to a good centre round level of rider, then lets just see what can be ridden, what cant, what stops them what doesnt and so on, using different rules that are in existance, time allowances per section and no time at all. then lets see how everyone does, what takes marks, what doesnt, basically a very honest test day. then from that a true picture could be painted and lets see what rules work, what dont, what type of sections etc... yes kinda complicated but not really, i just get sick of ppl saying you cant do this or you cant do that, this doesnt work or that doesnt work. lets see honestly what does work or doesnt, what they can ride, what stops them, what doesnt. not sure if this has been officially tried, but to my mind would be interesting. if the top foreigners didnt want to take part, we got some very able british riders at a very high level. i hear people say oh that wont stop them or this wont stop them, lets see? lets see how hard the sections really need to be to take marks....

just a thought!!!!!!! but one id love to watch...