Practice Venue

[bowergas]

I have a 40 acre woodland with stream, rocks, roots, cambers, hillclimbs and steps,

the venue has been used since the 1970's for trials.

What are the legal implications of allowing riders to practice for a daily fee.

JB

[rabie]

Been lurking for ages, busy with running / occasionally riding way too many events, ohh and working (to try and get my bike going again!)

Let em start by answering the second part of your question first and then returning to the first sentence for the planning law implication;

> What are the legal implications of allowing riders to practice for a daily fee.

a) In England and Wales - the GPDO (general permitted devlopment order) allows you to use a bit of land for trials, esp trials practice 28 times/days a year. a hot concil might count all days a bike is on the land (like setting out , etc). this does not apply in SSSI or national parks. Scotland, NI, IOM, Channel Islands, etc - diffrent planning law, i don't know the answer. Thus for more than 28 days you need planning permission, in a SSSI or national park you need plannning, etc. BTW other usages (eg a shoot, hunt, car boot sale, etc) are part of this 14/28 day rule.

BTW if you changed anything, like digging holes, bring in rocks, etc you might also need planning permission, depending on the work, etc.

Interpretation of all this varies considerably (ie on a case by case basis) with each of the 250 or so different local planning authorities in the UK.

sound could be a problem and there is the 'environmental health' part of the council that could come after you - less likely with trails compared to say mx

c) insurance - the riders are in a "public place" under the 1988 (as amended) Road Traffic ACt (even the infield of a SX stadium is a "public place") and thus require Third Party insurance that won't be part of their normal road policy (for road legal bikes). you the organisers and/or the landowner will also need insurance for this activity ("public liability"), mx practice track buy such policies from brokers such as lockton motorsport, doodsons, etc. if you ran it as a business, the health and safety at work act requires you to have an employers liability policy for your staff.

>I have a 40 acre woodland with stream, rocks, roots, cambers, hillclimbs and steps,

> the venue has been used since the 1970's for trials.

if you have documented proof (eg permits, trials results, aerial photos, etc) of ***continued*** usage (ie how many days a year), of both events, days setting out and taking in, etc that exceeds 10 continuous years you can then apply (with some skill) for retrospective planning for more than the 14/28 days of the GPDO.

[pistonbroke]

Been lurking for ages, busy with running / occasionally riding way too many events, ohh and working (to try and get my bike going again!)

Let em start by answering the second part of your question first and then returning to the first sentence for the planning law implication;

> What are the legal implications of allowing riders to practice for a daily fee.

a) In England and Wales - the GPDO (general permitted devlopment order) allows you to use a bit of land for trials, esp trials practice 28 times/days a year. a hot concil might count all days a bike is on the land (like setting out , etc). this does not apply in SSSI or national parks. Scotland, NI, IOM, Channel Islands, etc - diffrent planning law, i don't know the answer. Thus for more than 28 days you need planning permission, in a SSSI or national park you need plannning, etc. BTW other usages (eg a shoot, hunt, car boot sale, etc) are part of this 14/28 day rule.

BTW if you changed anything, like digging holes, bring in rocks, etc you might also need planning permission, depending on the work, etc.

Interpretation of all this varies considerably (ie on a case by case basis) with each of the 250 or so different local planning authorities in the UK.

sound could be a problem and there is the 'environmental health' part of the council that could come after you - less likely with trails compared to say mx

c) insurance - the riders are in a "public place" under the 1988 (as amended) Road Traffic ACt (even the infield of a SX stadium is a "public place") and thus require Third Party insurance that won't be part of their normal road policy (for road legal bikes). you the organisers and/or the landowner will also need insurance for this activity ("public liability"), mx practice track buy such policies from brokers such as lockton motorsport, doodsons, etc. if you ran it as a business, the health and safety at work act requires you to have an employers liability policy for your staff.

>I have a 40 acre woodland with stream, rocks, roots, cambers, hillclimbs and steps,

> the venue has been used since the 1970's for trials.

if you have documented proof (eg permits, trials results, aerial photos, etc) of ***continued*** usage (ie how many days a year), of both events, days setting out and taking in, etc that exceeds 10 continuous years you can then apply (with some skill) for retrospective planning for more than the 14/28 days of the GPDO.

I have read with interest the above explanation and although I fully accept it to be a true account of the regulations , I simply am amazed that the health and safety gestapo have such a say in somebody OWNING a piece of land which could be used , for the day, for practice sessions with a trials bike.

How did it ever get to this ?

You cannot make an extreme sport , such as trials, rock climbing , hang gliding tiddly winks etc. fully safe and a certain amount of responsibility should be given to the person doing the extreme sport to allow him to put himself at risk if he so wishes .

These people that make up these regulations will drive home in a car that only gets examined once a year , if its over three years old,and no doubt will eat there tea with a sharp implement without so much as thinking about it but, mention a off road motor bike and you would think the world might end and I need protecting from this evil hobby I have chosen to do !!!!

THEY MAKE MY BLOOD BOIL ARGGGGGGHHHHHH

I'll get off my soapbox now and go back to bed

Rant Over

[rabie]

falling off a rock while riding it is no problem on your own land, but -

* planing wise you can only do so 14/28 times a year before you need planning permission

* if you didn't have the rocks you probably / definitely need planning (and an environment agency dumping ticket) to bring them in

* if you ran a business (ie practice venue) and i paid you, then you have legal obligations to furfil (public liability insurance), i the rider have to have third party insurance

* for practice its grey, but one could argue the same legislation requires you to notify your chief constable

* if a club (rather than a business) does something then the Health and Safety at work act isn't quiet so onerous (but this is open to interpretation).

at the end of the day there are plenty of places that ignore all of this, but when the **** hits the fan, your were warned (be it as rider, organisers or landowner) - the way it's been set up, us sad folk at clubs/governing bodies have gone out and covered our arses with lots of bureaucracy to get round these issues but if you want to set up a practice rather than event venue then you have surmount all these on your own

[gjbiker]

I'm assuming all these implications arise when the act of money changing hands is mentioned? What if there was no money involved and all you were doing was inviting some friends around to practice on your land? If your friends were to become dehydrated I suppose the may be willing to pay a few quid for the last remaining bottle of water in your fridge? (seen this trick before - not sure of the legalities?)

I also have a small piece of land, enough to practice on, and all these rules and regulations get right up my nose! How do the horsey hunting people get around it? They build artificial jumps and the likes? Surely they charge something for letting the riders romp around blowing trumpets and shouting 'Tally Ho'? Surely a few rocks and a bit of digger work can easily be rectified/removed if the land were to be passed on for another use?

No wonder Britain is lacking prowess in many sports these days. The government, councils and do gooders are far more intent in putting up barriers to stop progress when they should be willing to help and promote an active interest. A private individual offering land for use should be praised for helping to cut down on all the illegal riding issues we have?

GJ

Edited July 20, 2010 by gjbiker

[rabie]

no not just cash, it's life (in the UK...)

to a limited extent there are some greater expectations / obligations when it is a business (ie a practice for cash venue) esp around the health and safety stuff, but the planning and insurance stuff would still apply if it was just you practising on your own land (ie risk of you hitting a walker, etc - but i think something like an NFU farm policy could cover you for going around your land, on your bike - rather than saying you are practising trials on your land).

re horsey events - they are quiet under planning (but so are trials), so you've your 28 days of GPDO, which if they exceed they can be prosecuted for. again the stuff they do is in the eye of the beholder, like it is for a trial - so toilets on site, cards for marking out the event, etc are the same for them (ie horse jumps, etc) as us.

[bowergas]

Hmmmm!

sounds pretty straightforward!

thank you all for your input I'm off to buy a horse.

What is the likely cost of any third party/ public liability insurance cover specifically for trials ?

[rabie]

since i (down here in the south) have never yet met the owner/operator of a trials practice venue i don't know if any of them have any cover (even though there are various operators out there plus several clubs such as Scarborough, berkhempstead, etc). best bet would be to phone Locktons Motorsport in Manchester and speak to Dawn Luby, or try Doodsons.