charliechitlins Posted May 15, 2011 Report Share Posted May 15, 2011 New bike! It's a happy day. Bad clutch, though. It seems that there was an update (new plates) that changed the pack height...this was performed a while ago and the clutch was working. Now the clutch disengages partially, but not enough to come to a complete halt. The bike did sit for some time. Could this be the o-rings in the slave? Of course I'll try bleeding first. Can this one be back-filled? Also...the rear suspension seems very soft...this bike might not be set up for a 190# rider. Is the pre-load adjustable to set the race sag? DAMN, it's good to see a trials bike parked in the yard again!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
searay175 Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 Keep in mind that my "new bike" is yet 10+ years older than yours but I had the same symtoms. First thing I attemted was to bleed the clutch and after a snapped bleeder screw I ordered a new banjo bolt but to meet order minimum I ordered a clutch master as well. Same results, so I removed the slave and found the o-rings in poor shape so order that also. Still the clutch would drag so I pulled the clutch cover off and removed the clutch pack and found that the inner 2-3 plates and discs were all but stuck together with very sticky ATF, I cleaned them up with brakleen and installed and it seems to be ok. In talking with the previous owner he stated that it had not been ran for almost 2 years so maybe thats why the plates were stuck. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 I told you, Charlie!!!! There are lots of mods on these since '03, you need to figure out what was done, and not. Plates may be swollen, youneed the latest tophat seals plus probably the light bellville spring, then set the stack height where it needs to be! Jon should be here soon to rescue you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliechitlins Posted May 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 I'll get it apart soon... I forgot to mention the milky, pinkish ATF I can see through the peep-hole. I wonder what it means for clutch plates to be sitting in that for a couple years. I just have to share the most amazing part of this return to trials maneuver... My girlfriend actually asked me if I wanted to park it in the living room. I told her that it's every rider's dream to park his bike in the living room, but it was probably the first time in history that a wife or girlfriend actually suggested it. I think the bike and the girl are both keepers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jse Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 I forgot to mention the milky, pinkish ATF I can see through the peep-hole. Ah, yes, Charlie, the truth finally comes out....Much like the Psychotherapist's Syndrome, where the patient, just leaving out the door after a session, calmly remarks to the therapist, "oh, and by the way, I killed my Mother last night and then had sex with my lawnmower. See ya!".... The waterpump problem needs to be fixed and then take on the clutch issue, which may involve replacing the clutch pack, which should be a "drop-in" job as they are pre-measured from the factory. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliechitlins Posted May 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 I hadn't thought of the water pump. Duh... I thought of hydraulic fluid being there from the clutch, but not water pump. Doesn't that pump just slide into the cover and get sealed with an o-ring? Any seals on the shaft? It's been a while since I've been in one of those..... I guess the clutches could be swollen, eh? And...ixnay on the awnmowerlay... I thought that was our little secret. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jse Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 I hadn't thought of the water pump. That's why you have us....... There are some good videos on YouTube and TrialsPartsUSA websites on servicing the water pump. They are a little tricky, so check out the videos beforehand and you'll need to index the shaft to the primary gear during installation. You'll also probably need to replace the W/P shaft as the early ones wore a groove easily. Jon ps. No one knows about the lawnmower thingie except you and me. Oh, and maybe YouTube...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliechitlins Posted May 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 I played a little tonight... AFter all these years I've finally learned to go for the simple stuff first. Although the previous owner has ridden for many years, I noticed that several things on the bike were poorly adjusted/sorted. This bike needs a good strip-down so I can get to every fastener...everything I touch takes a tweak...sometimes more... I think problem may be as simple as the adjustment at the lever. I had to back the adjuster WAY off to get some freeplay. I'll be sure when I get some oil back in it. I had to drain the pink stuff ASAP...it was bumming me out. I think, though, that it may just be a mixture of ATF and motor oil. I drained a bit of coolant and it looks perfect. Could I assume that if there was coolant in the oil, there'd be oil in the coolant? I remember that water pump...it has a pin that indexes into a notch in the shaft. I wonder how many of those covers have been broken by socking it down without having the pin in the slot. Also...I really cranked up the pre-load on the rear shock...mmmm, mmmm good! What's with the liddo knobs on the tops of the forks. One preload and the other damping? Which is which? Is there a spring in both forks? Inquiring minds want to know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jse Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 sometimes more... I think problem may be as simple as the adjustment at the lever. I had to back the adjuster WAY off to get some freeplay. I'll be sure when I get some oil back in it.I played a little tonight... AFter all these years I've finally learned to go for the simple stuff first. Although the previous owner has ridden for many years, I noticed that several things on the bike were poorly adjusted/sorted. This bike needs a good strip-down so I can get to every fastener...everything I touch takes a tweak... I had to drain the pink stuff ASAP...it was bumming me out. I think, though, that it may just be a mixture of ATF and motor oil. I drained a bit of coolant and it looks perfect. Could I assume that if there was coolant in the oil, there'd be oil in the coolant? I remember that water pump...it has a pin that indexes into a notch in the shaft. I wonder how many of those covers have been broken by socking it down without having the pin in the slot. Also...I really cranked up the pre-load on the rear shock...mmmm, mmmm good! What's with the liddo knobs on the tops of the forks. One preload and the other damping? Which is which? Is there a spring in both forks? Inquiring minds want to know! You have the right idea, to assume that everything is wrong with a used bike and start from the bottom up. The lever adjuster screw tightened up too far is the most common issue I've seen. I think it comes from riders unfamiliar with hydraulic systems thinking it works like a cable. The coolant will usually look fine as the coolant system is under pressure and the fluid goes one way. If the head o-ring was leaking, you might find oil in the coolant, but this appears to be a water pump problem. Another possibility, other than the water pump, is that the radiator cap overflow hose got crimped under the fuel tank, which will force fluid past the seal into the tranny. Springs in both the forks. Knobs are damping adjusters, one of left (black) is compression and one on the right (red) is rebound. The 03' forks seem to work well with the compression all the way out and rebound all the way in. Inquiring minds now know. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliechitlins Posted May 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 Thanks, Jon. You're probably right about the water pump, but for the price of some 5w30, I'll put some in and keep an eye on it. Funny...Sherco had the same problem around then with seals wearing grooves in the shaft. Rubber eating steel...makes a guy wonder... I see what you mean about treating the hyd clutch like it's a cable...if it's not disengaging, try tightening the adjuster. Kinda sorta makes sense if you don't think about it for too long! I'll definitely have the tank off to see if everything is sorted under there, so I'll check that vent. Right...red...rebound...I like it when it's easy! Y'know what's not easy? That eyesore light/instrument cluster with the mounting bracket UNDER the top tree. No fair! I am really looking forward to taking this thing for a rip! I wonder if the folks at the golf course across the street would mind.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted May 18, 2011 Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 Thanks, Jon. You're probably right about the water pump, but for the price of some 5w30, I'll put some in and keep an eye on it. Funny...Sherco had the same problem around then with seals wearing grooves in the shaft. Rubber eating steel...makes a guy wonder... I see what you mean about treating the hyd clutch like it's a cable...if it's not disengaging, try tightening the adjuster. Kinda sorta makes sense if you don't think about it for too long! I'll definitely have the tank off to see if everything is sorted under there, so I'll check that vent. Right...red...rebound...I like it when it's easy! Y'know what's not easy? That eyesore light/instrument cluster with the mounting bracket UNDER the top tree. No fair! I am really looking forward to taking this thing for a rip! I wonder if the folks at the golf course across the street would mind.... I think those things prefer ATF Charlie!!!! I seem to recall at one point back when, they were running GM autotrack transfer case fluid or something, but I have not heard of any mention of late. Good luck saving that clutch pack! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliechitlins Posted May 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2011 I think those things prefer ATF Charlie!!!! I seem to recall at one point back when, they were running GM autotrack transfer case fluid or something, but I have not heard of any mention of late. Good luck saving that clutch pack! Factory calls for 5w30 motor oil...I was running it in my Sherco and it was so cheap I felt good about changing it often. I bet Dexron III would do it, too. The new oil went milky. Looks like I'm in for some water pump parts (Stoodley was right, of course!). The clutch pack WAS new...I hope it's not too compromised from sitting in coolant. I'll measure it up...maybe take it apart and go at the plates with Brake Kleen... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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