Another Blow To Super Cub Trials Projects.

[john b]

A bit off piste but I thought I would share....

Me and my son ride twinshock (on Hondas) and Pre 65 on genuine pre 65 bikes

We did our first vintage trial a few weeks ago, after joining the organisation, checking with the organisers etc. Had a great day, some very friendly guys, good trial.

The following week we were at another (twinshock) trial, and were told confidentially that after the trial there were a couple of dissenters who thought "kids shouldn't be riding pre 65"

Now my son is 13, a good rider, capable, organisation member, polite, respectful, helpful (he observed his allocated section for a lap no arguments) - and was riding probably one of the most eligible bikes there (1955 James) !

Are we put off ? Far from it - I thanked the guy for him telling me, and said we will definitely be at the next trial !

I understand this thread is about "rules" and invariably rules will always get bent to the point of breaking - what is that breaking point is the issue, but we cant let politics spoil a great days sport (which is the point of my post...... !

cheers

John

[old trials fanatic]

Hi Guy's,

Here is a question for you then, do you think whether or not having rules related to Classic trial-ling in the UK and the resultant acceptance of using ground up new bikes in the P65 class, has been a good thing for the sport as a whole ?

Or would we be happier riding anything we choose, and deem in our own view is a Classic machine , like they seem to on the continent of Europe and beyond. They seem so much happier than we do?

Regards Charlie.

Doesnt matter what the riders think Charlie. If you enter an event then you sign as part of the entry form to abide by the rules that the organising club have set down. If you dont agree with those rules dont whinge about it afterwards DONT RIDE THERE ride somewhere else preferably with a club whose rules you do agree with. Jon Bliss knew he was taking the p*** when he built the bike. He deliberately went out to create something that looks even on a dark night like NOTHING ever sold as a Trials or Road bike prior to modern times so he knew damned well what he was doing. He wanted to stir things up which he has succeeded in doing. I dont get it. I will say it again if it is all about having fun on a supposedly cheap bike which many have pointed out is no cheaper than the real thing then why all the whining about riding on a non award basis ? You still get to build it you still get to ride it you just get shown on the results as ineligible machine but you knew that when you entered if you had bothered to talk to the organisers before hand so whats the problem? if it's all about having fun and just riding your bike? surely you have but on a non award basis. the only other logical conclusion is that winning is more important than having fun on your bike therefore the bike MUST have been created to give the rider that can exploit it an advantage. QED I have shown a bike that could and has been created from not dissimilar components and i am sure would be acceptable to most clubs to ride as a twinshock but Jon wouldnt build a bike like this would he as it wouldnt give him that elusive advantage would it ?

This is just ridiculous the pit bike mob cant see the difference between Jon's aberration and a current evo Bantam, Cub, Whatever and the others can. Stalemate but it still doesnt matter because it's not about what the riders think is it it's about what the organisers think at the end of the day so if it bothers you that much do what you have previously offered to do run a series to whatever rules you decide then riders can choose to ride your event under those rules or not. Seriously i wish you success. Lead by example show the ACU and all the other clubs in the UK how it should be done.

[b40rt]

A bit off piste but I thought I would share....

Me and my son ride twinshock (on Hondas) and Pre 65 on genuine pre 65 bikes

We did our first vintage trial a few weeks ago, after joining the organisation, checking with the organisers etc. Had a great day, some very friendly guys, good trial.

The following week we were at another (twinshock) trial, and were told confidentially that after the trial there were a couple of dissenters who thought "kids shouldn't be riding pre 65"

Now my son is 13, a good rider, capable, organisation member, polite, respectful, helpful (he observed his allocated section for a lap no arguments) - and was riding probably one of the most eligible bikes there (1955 James) !

Are we put off ? Far from it - I thanked the guy for him telling me, and said we will definitely be at the next trial !

I understand this thread is about "rules" and invariably rules will always get bent to the point of breaking - what is that breaking point is the issue, but we cant let politics spoil a great days sport (which is the point of my post...... !

cheers

John

Re young riders, the Classic Manx has a rule which states the winner must be over (40?) Younger riders still ride, and may have the lowest score. The age rule is to sort the pot hunter from the genuine enthusiast.

[john b]

Re young riders, the Classic Manx has a rule which states the winner must be over (40?) Younger riders still ride, and may have the lowest score. The age rule is to sort the pot hunter from the genuine enthusiast.

Appreciate the response, but where does age come into 'pot hunter' and 'Genuine Enthusiast' ?

My son is 13 - if he won it would be on ability, and he has equal or more genuine enthusiasm for Pre 65 than most people (he lives and breathes it)

[old trials fanatic]

Re young riders, the Classic Manx has a rule which states the winner must be over (40?) Younger riders still ride, and may have the lowest score. The age rule is to sort the pot hunter from the genuine enthusiast.

Shame the Scottish 2 day doesnt do likewise IMHO

[b40rt]

Appreciate the response, but where does age come into 'pot hunter' and 'Genuine Enthusiast' ?

My son is 13 - if he won it would be on ability, and he has equal or more genuine enthusiasm for Pre 65 than most people (he lives and breathes it)

Pot hunters look for easy opposition, pre 65 enthusiasts ride for the sport.

Haven't met your son so can't comment.

Shame the Scottish 2 day doesnt do likewise IMHO

Not many 13 year olds in the Pre65, or winners under 40.

Edited March 26, 2015 by b40rt

[jj65]

I do understand were your coming from concerning pot hunting and obviously a good 13 year old rider will be more physically able than most the creeking (falling apart around the seems) old boys, but It doesn't matter about age, what counts is enthusiasm and enjoyment, one day he may be running a club, clerk of the course, observer Nd still riding when he's 65.

Surely, as has been said, when you sign on at a trial, you accept how the organisers of the trial wish to run it, if you don't like it, go somewhere else, but the most important factor is having fun, enjoying yourself and not taking it TOO seriously.

Mr Bliss doesn't do himself any favours, as he annoys quite a few people with his antics on and off the bike.

[steve_earle]

Classic trials does not include big obstacles and such that would give a youth much advantage, It's more balance and control and to be honest most middle aged guys have more bulk and are more capable of man handling an old bike around anyway.

Seems like some miserable old gits just don't want their 40+ odd years of experience shown up by a lad.

Youths are the future of trials it doesn't matter if it's modern or classic.

[japes1275]

I started riding in Pre 65 when I was 15 and never had any problems, in fact I was welcomed. I seem to remember at that time if you were under 40 you started off with 10 marks though!!

[b40rt]

Classic trials does not include big obstacles and such that would give a youth much advantage, It's more balance and control and to be honest most middle aged guys have more bulk and are more capable of man handling an old bike around anyway.

Seems like some miserable old gits just don't want their 40+ odd years of experience shown up by a lad.

Youths are the future of trials it doesn't matter if it's modern or classic.

Contrary as always.

"Classic Trials doesn't include big obstacles" you haven't ridden the pre 65 Scottish ?

[bisby]

I am sure if Johns cub had a conventional fuel tank and bigger frame down tubes there would be less fuss.

looking at the results he came 17th out of 26 entered, not what you would call a pot hunter?

As for young riders competing with older riders the older riders should be happy to see them, they will keep these great old bikes going in the future.

I remember going to Pre 65 trials with the Morewood family, Alan would be on his big Ariel or Enfield and a young Davy was on a Bsa bantam, Davy has years later won the Pre 65 Scottish 2 day, he is a few months younger than me and I am 50 this June!

Ps I had a lot of fun riding in last Sundays Twinshock National, Thanks to the Congleton club for all there hard work.

Stephen,

[totalshell]

come one come all 13 or 113.. actually the amca limit is 12.. many clubs though run 16 yorks classic has just moved to 14 minimum age

[jon v8]

Looks like I was a bit hasty in my criticism of the ACU,just lifted this from their website;

PLEASE NOTE: FOR 2016 IT IS INTENDED THAT A COMPLETE REVIEW OF ALL THE CLASSES WILL BE UNDERTAKEN AS THE TRIALS AND ENDURO COMMITTEE REMAIN OF THE VIEW THAT THE ORIGINAL PHILOSOPHY OF THIS SERIES IS BEING LOST AND NEEDS EXAMINATION

Be interesting to see what they come up with. I'll just take my in the queue....

[dursleydabber]

I started pre65 when I was twelve(now in my mid 40`s) and have never had any interest in modern trials.I was brought up around British machinery esp Norton's (I'm 4th generation Norton owner in my family)! It was inevitable that I was gonna be into old bikes and I love it! I love the sounds, the smells® the whole process of maintainance, engineering,building, research, history, competing, cleaning, preparation, comeraraderie, success, failure(not so much),organising events,helping others,going to museums and shows,jumbles,riding in,snow,rain,fog, heat and even biblical mayfly hatches!,and all the other things that go into being an enthusiast! But certainly not a pot hunter!(there are so few pots to hunt in Pre65 anyway trust me!)There's a big difference between a genuine young enthusiast and a young modern rider who borrows Daddy's brand new Cub or Ariel just to get his face in the paper at a big event!Over the years there have been a few incidences where I've been discriminated against because of my age but mainly I have had encouragement!We need as many youngsters as we can get to carry it all on!Encourage them!The early Golden,Valley trials(80`s) had a schoolboy Pre65 class(G)

[dursleydabber]

They must have heard our rantings! Glad to see the ACU are changing the rules for the Sammy Champs for 2016. What do we all think the classes should be then? Answers on a postcard please!