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Beta or Fantic!


Hughie
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6 minutes ago, mcman56 said:

I believe the answer is related to your talent level and type of stuff you ride.  I'm an average 65 year old with a modern Beta and a TY175. On any modern bike, I am constantly on all of the controls; throttle, front brake, clutch and back brake.  My TY is geared quite low so I get some engine braking and can mostly ride with just the throttle.  I find it much much easier to manage one input vs. four.  (For a talented rider this probably does not matter.)  Brakes are weak so when you do use them you don't have to worry about stalling the engine with the back brake or easily washing out the front wheel with the front brake.  Power is soft so you don't have to worry much about using too much and things happen slower so reflexes do not have to be so sharp.  (This may be the definition of forgiving.) It is short so some people say they can turn tighter on a TY175 than they can on a modern bike.  Overall, it can be much easier to ride in many moderate sections.  However, there are a few situations where there is no comparison.  Due to lack of suspension, the TY feels like the ball in a pin ball machine in anything like a rocky creek bed.  The lack of abrupt power makes it difficult or impossible to get up bigger obstacles if there is no run at it.  (Riders skilled with firing the clutch would not have this issue,)  The third thing I notice is that the TY clutch out riding style sort of commits you to a certain line in a tight turn.  If that line does not work out, there is a dab.  On a modern bike, I can pull in the clutch to regroup and make corrections mid turn.                 

Yes, I get that.... One of my bikes is a 1973 Harley Sportster, the brakes are practically non existent and its a heavy bike for its size so there's no firing it flat out in to bends and then yanking on the anchors because there aren't any..... I just coast around everywhere and enjoy that style of riding. I had a TY175 when I was younger and don't recall the brakes being awful, however I never trialled it and doubtless they are nothing like the hydraulic discs on my Rev3 - but then sometimes engine braking and softer actual brakes can be more predictable, at least on road bikes. It doesn't bother me the the brakes on my old bikes are crap to be honest!

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You are rarely in high traction situations in trials so I don't find the TY brakes to be an issue.  The TY is also not that heavy at around 175 lbs.  The Honda 4t is listed at 170 lbs so not much difference at all.

As an amusing example... I had been just riding my TY for a while and commonly riding over a log about 12" diameter with the top maybe 18" off the ground.  One day I went to the same exact place on a 280 Beta.  I lifted the front wheel and anticipated the front wheel hitting the log so I could apply the second blip but the back wheel was instantly on top so I was over the log before I knew what happened.    

 

 

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Hi Hughie, I commented on your 250 v 200 thread, to add comments here, everyone has different requirements. I just want a reliable bike that I wash, minimum servicing & ride and do not want to tinker (my children and grandchildren take up my spare time), therefore comments are purely on a bike to suit an aging novice. 

Older twin shocks are heavier, sometimes can not kickstart in gear hence have to find neutral if stalled, clutches are heavier, tubed tyres do not grip as well as modern tubeless tyres, rear suspension is significantly worse especially getting up steps and unless something has changed since I rode them drum brakes really are poor when wet and going downhill can be a nightmare. The only advantage I can see is that they seem hold or go up in value, a modern machine generally drops. 

I have great respect for Alexz Wigg and he could probably go round a trial on a Harley for a lower score than me on my modern bike however I would go for an Evo and if you get a 250 and its to much you can soften it in various ways.

Melba   

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1 minute ago, melba26 said:

Hi Hughie, I commented on your 250 v 200 thread, to add comments here, everyone has different requirements. I just want a reliable bike that I wash, minimum servicing & ride and do not want to tinker (my children and grandchildren take up my spare time), therefore comments are purely on a bike to suit an aging novice. 

Older twin shocks are heavier, sometimes can not kickstart in gear hence have to find neutral if stalled, clutches are heavier, tubed tyres do not grip as well as modern tubeless tyres, rear suspension is significantly worse especially getting up steps and unless something has changed since I rode them drum brakes really are poor when wet and going downhill can be a nightmare. The only advantage I can see is that they seem hold or go up in value, a modern machine generally drops. 

I have great respect for Alexz Wigg and he could probably go round a trial on a Harley for a lower score than me on my modern bike however I would go for an Evo and if you get a 250 and its to much you can soften it in various ways.

Melba   

Alexz is a great bloke, we got on really well. He’s from the same small town as me yet somehow we’d never met. I expect because he spends most of his time elsewhere with trials stuff! I’ve got another day lined up with him in a few weeks, whatever bike I have by then I’m going to try my best not to irreparably damage it half way through the day this time! It was watching him effortlessly bounce up the rock steps that got me…. Unbelievable…. Anyway, I’m settled now. Modern it is, I’ll probably pick a ‘doo-er up-er’ twin shock of some description down the line for tinkering around with. Maybe rescue an old TY and pimp it up a bit. But not for my main or only bike at this stage…

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Because I was riding a lot of trials run by "classic" clubs, I decided I should have a classic bike and bought a Fantic 200. After a while I realised that you should only own an old bike if you have a passion for old bikes. I haven't; I just want to ride trials. So I changed to a Beta 250, and since then I've changed again to an Electric Motion. If you really love twinshocks, buy one. If not, buy a modern bike. That's my two penn'orth, for what it's worth.

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