scorpa3 Posted April 9, 2006 Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 Can anyone tell me if any club is conforming to TSR8 (and NSC8a)? In the ACU handbook it states- "Trials Standing Regulation. (TSR8) Motorcycles. The supplementary regulations for each event shall indicate the Categories and Groups of machines eligible. Motorcycles must comply with Appendix B of the National Sporting Code and have independent brakes on both the front and rear wheels. Prior to the start of each trial all machines will be examined to ensure that they comply with ACU specifications." I have never had a machine inspected at any event, has anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
north_yorkshire_lad Posted April 9, 2006 Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 i have but only at nationals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherco 125 Posted April 9, 2006 Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 at motor cross i used to but not trials Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpa3 Posted April 9, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 According to the ACU handbook, examination should be carried out at every event. Why? And what happens if this is not done? Any thoughts? If John Collins reads this, what do you say John? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuartc Posted April 9, 2006 Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 Pretty easy to spot if they have brakes on each wheel I think. As long as you have them all is fine, as to them working or not is up to the rider! As far as I am aware the only thing that a machine examiner should look for is ball end levers, and cut off switch on bikes ridden by YOUTHS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted April 9, 2006 Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 On road trials, bikes always used to be examined, to make sure they were roadworthy such as working brakes, no loose spokes or any other obvious structural deficiencies and also to ensure they were road legal - horn, speedo tax disc etc etc. Over the years this has died out, road legality became the responsibility of the rider and it is very rare for the bike to be checked at all now, although they were in today's Phil King. Can't say for a closed circuit trial I can ever remember having a bike checked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the artist formerly known as ish Posted April 9, 2006 Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 As you get older, your supposed to have regular prostate exams, I don't see you worrying about that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted April 10, 2006 Report Share Posted April 10, 2006 Oi i have it checked regularly along with me exhaust Havent had or seen a bike "scrutineered" for a while though. Not even for class elegibility Probably worried it might put some riders off and we need every one that we can get at the moment for events to stay financialy viable. Do think it's a bit pointless having it in the ACU book if it's not being done though. Ball ended levers still complete with balls and kill switches on ALL bikes i would have thought a must. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpa3 Posted April 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2006 Do think it's a bit pointless having it in the ACU book if it's not being done though. Ball ended levers still complete with balls and kill switches on ALL bikes i would have thought a must. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> As too should be self closing throttles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
numbnuts Posted April 10, 2006 Report Share Posted April 10, 2006 We at Manchester 17 always have machine examing at the start of the Dead Easy trials. We have a lot of new riders and younger riders so we give their bike and riding gear the once over, to ensure it is adequate and safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
araf Posted April 10, 2006 Report Share Posted April 10, 2006 In all disciplines, safety scruteneering seems to be done less and less, on the basis of 'Duty of Care.' If your bike is deemed safe, and then you have an accident due to the brakes failing, do you have a case against the scruteneer/club? Unfortunately, there are plenty that would choose to find out the answer in court, which would be expensive to all parties. By putting your machine type on your entry form, you are being 'scrutenised' for elegibility within the class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuartc Posted April 10, 2006 Report Share Posted April 10, 2006 ARAF, I agree and I think you will find that is why the ACU decided against total bike checks. If the machine examiner says YES bike fine, then you get to 1st section say, which is downhill and brakes dont work. You get injured. Who is in the wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpa3 Posted April 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 In all disciplines, safety scruteneering seems to be done less and less, on the basis of 'Duty of Care.'If your bike is deemed safe, and then you have an accident due to the brakes failing, do you have a case against the scruteneer/club? Unfortunately, there are plenty that would choose to find out the answer in court, which would be expensive to all parties. By putting your machine type on your entry form, you are being 'scrutenised' for elegibility within the class. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Exactly. However, our club has been pulled up by the ACU Steward for not scrutineering the riders machines as per TSR8 (and NSC8a)in the handbook. Who carries out the scrutineering at your events? What qualifications are required? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancslass Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 this has come up at our club, and answer we got back was if it says it in the handbook you should do it. bikes to be examined by a competent person (??!!)its like an mot in terms of the liability on the examiner. i guess its abit of a similar situation as in the handbook where it says first aid is recommended, (recommended is as good as you should have so i was told at a recent trials seminar) but in terms of reality???????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john collins Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Sorry have only just returned home so not had a chance to reply to this post as someone asked. I must say that I am not too inclined to become to involved in a debate on this one as a general Web topic as I feel it is more suitable for a Trials forum etc. I will try to give a personal view in quite broad terms. Firstly - N.S.C will try to refer to all disciplines regardless - and this is often rather complicated - and may well in the future need to be reviewed - as although for simplicity and not too have a huge book it is nice to try to lump all things together it can cause problems. Machine examination will also be called Technical Officers in some disciplines and may required to be licenced etc. This is understandable - especially if we accept that a machine hurling around the TT at 140 is different from a Trials bike in a section - the requisit for a wired sump plug to prevent oil spillage on track etc being an example. So although the NSC tries to lay down the sort of ultimate requirements - these will vary in many cases between disciplines. As far as the Trials Regs are concerned - it does say that machines should be examined. About 2 years ago there was a necessity for a machine examiner to complete a form and send it in - often just to say there were no problems. ( which was 99.9999% the case) Now the Machine Examiner will really only report any incident that causes them concern - and will obviously consult with C/Course to see if rider can start. The real crux of the matter is what machine examination now consisits of. In Trials we have no requirement or desire for our Machine examiners to be giving bikes an MOT type inspection. As Stuart has already stated - examination is basically checking for ACU requirements such as ball end levers, correct tyres etc and of course perhaps a visual check that the bike is all in a safe looking condition. This may often be done visually at the start line - and so riders may not be called to a formal examination. At other events I have seen and ridden in - there is mostly definitely a requirement to take your machine for examination. The process will vary. The best example I can give is probably brakes ? Many riders will have had the brakes applied - and the machine pushed forward to see if it stops? This actually obviously checks that there is fluid in hydraulics - and caliper is working etc , Or cables connected and brake mechanism working. It cannot possibly check the efficiency of the brakes - only that they are fitted and working - and that is really all anyone can be expected to do. If for example the pads were down to the last 1/4mm of friction material - or even down to steel - they will stop the machine in the paddock type push - but would certainly not be effecient on the first steep downhill? So - the onus must remain with the rider to prevent and compete on a machine which is safe and maintained - and in fact the rider will have signed on the Entry form to confirm this. This is even more important in an event which uses the Public Highway. The rider signs to say he has in place correct Driving Licence, RTA Insurance , MOT etc and the bikle is RTA legal. Rider responsibility - not Organiser. Having said all this - if on a visual check - or on a apply brake and push - or apply pressure to wheels to check bearings/s/arm etc the machine examiner was not happy that the bike was in a safe condition - with the Clerk of Course they would be entitled and correct to prevent that machine from starting. Common sense must prevail - in is probably better than any rukles the T & E can write. If for example a guy turned up at formal machine examination - or the organiser was carrying out a visual examination at the start line - and saw there was no brake caliper - or hose fitted - then surely the thing to do would be to tell the rider to put the thing back in the van? It is a complicated subject - and it is easy to take a sledgehammer to crack a few small nuts. I can only finish by stating that in Trials at least - it is not causing concern at present either to the T & E Committee or our Insurers. I finsih by emphasising that in all such matters - the rider needs to take the responsibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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