[whackywoody]

Hello everyone,

I am currently recovering from a cruciate knee ligament operation and therefore I have a bit of time on my hands to do some research as to what trials bike I should purchase next. I also believe that by deciding what bike to get next will help me as inspiration / goal to fully recover and be riding again by the beginning of 2009. I am in my early 30's now and have always ridden 2 strokes (clubman / intermediate level) but did own a 4rt which was sold after 3 months as I seemed to be riding worse probarbly due to me being heavy handed on the throttle. However the problem I now have is trying to predict whether or not trials bike manufacturers will still be producing 2 strokes trials bikes in the long term future and from this I will decide whether to convert to 4 stroke again or stick with the trusty 2 stroke. Here are some facts I have:

1.) FIM are pushing for all world championship factory riders to be on 4 strokes due to emissions and as all the best riders will therefore be competing on 4 strokes the demand for 2 strokes will drop forcing trials manufacturers to sieze 2 stroke production

2.) From discussions I have had with a UK importer they believe 2 strokes will always be produced

3.) As I work in the car industry I understand the manufacturing emissions / legislations are getting challenging for the manufacturers. Could 2 stroke engines technolgy be improved to make them pass emission legislations

4.) In motorcross / enduro 4 strokes were very popular but when people started to realise that the purchasing / maintenance costs of a 4 stroke where far higher than the 2 strokes they decided to go back to 2 strokes

Please let me know what your opinions / predictions are for the future

Thanks for reading

Gareth

[madcr500]

I had to vote 4-strokes. (grudgingly)

If the question had been "What would you like to be the future of Trials bikes" I would have voted 2 strokes all the way. Gotta love that ring-a-ding-ding

[DGShannon]

Depends on how far into the future, you are talking about. Next year will of course be a mix. Five years from now, most likely all 4-stroke.

whackywoody, on Jun 18 2008, 10:40 AM, said:

Hello everyone,

I am currently recovering from a cruciate knee ligament operation and therefore I have a bit of time on my hands to do some research as to what trials bike I should purchase next. I also believe that by deciding what bike to get next will help me as inspiration / goal to fully recover and be riding again by the beginning of 2009. I am in my early 30's now and have always ridden 2 strokes (clubman / intermediate level) but did own a 4rt which was sold after 3 months as I seemed to be riding worse probarbly due to me being heavy handed on the throttle. However the problem I now have is trying to predict whether or not trials bike manufacturers will still be producing 2 strokes trials bikes in the long term future and from this I will decide whether to convert to 4 stroke again or stick with the trusty 2 stroke. Here are some facts I have:

1.) FIM are pushing for all world championship factory riders to be on 4 strokes due to emissions and as all the best riders will therefore be competing on 4 strokes the demand for 2 strokes will drop forcing trials manufacturers to sieze 2 stroke production

2.) From discussions I have had with a UK importer they believe 2 strokes will always be produced

3.) As I work in the car industry I understand the manufacturing emissions / legislations are getting challenging for the manufacturers. Could 2 stroke engines technolgy be improved to make them pass emission legislations

4.) In motorcross / enduro 4 strokes were very popular but when people started to realise that the purchasing / maintenance costs of a 4 stroke where far higher than the 2 strokes they decided to go back to 2 strokes

Please let me know what your opinions / predictions are for the future

Thanks for reading

Gareth

[swooshdave]

whackywoody, on Jun 18 2008, 08:40 AM, said:

3.) As I work in the car industry I understand the manufacturing emissions / legislations are getting challenging for the manufacturers. Could 2 stroke engines technolgy be improved to make them pass emission legislations

I believe there is already work on direct injection two strokes. This is more likely the future, especially for small displacement engines (i.e. trials bikes).

But if you really want to know the future of trials...



THE FUTURE!

[MotoVintage]

unless they can make a 2-stroke meet emmission standards I'm afraid we will all be adjusting valves by the next decade unless you want to ride an old bike, the electric trials bike is interesting if they can ever make a battery light enough and hold a charge for a decent time it may be the future, I wouldn't count seeing a production electric bike capable of national or world level competition for 20 years or more

[swooshdave]

MotoVintage, on Jun 18 2008, 02:47 PM, said:

unless they can make a 2-stroke meet emmission standards I'm afraid we will all be adjusting valves by the next decade unless you want to ride an old bike, the electric trials bike is interesting if they can ever make a battery light enough and hold a charge for a decent time it may be the future, I wouldn't count seeing a production electric bike capable of national or world level competition for 20 years or more

Really? 20 years? That's a mighty pessimistic outlook.

Did you read the article on that electric bike? He's some 30lbs over-weight on his first attempt with non-custom parts. And he's probably having to use heaver lead-acid batteries. Once he gets more modern lithium-ion batteries, it should make a difference. If a manufacturer were to take a crack at it, they could easily match the current fuel bikes weight and exceed their performance.

I could easily see having to re-fuel (swap batteries) between loops. How far do you get with the modern bikes with a tank of gas now?

20 years?

[MotoVintage]

Yes I do have a pesimistic outlook abought a production electric trials bike capable of competing in world rounds within 20 years.
I don't think any major manufacturers are interested in electric power whether they are building cars or motorcycles

[swooshdave]

MotoVintage, on Jun 18 2008, 07:39 PM, said:

Yes I do have a pesimistic outlook abought a production electric trials bike capable of competing in world rounds within 20 years.
I don't think any major manufacturers are interested in electric power whether they are building cars or motorcycles

Could be...

Volt?

[scorpa3]

Perhaps we should have another option...... Alternative power source.

Maybe oil based fuel is going to last a lot longer than people thought but will we be able to afford it?

A couple of years back, I rode a trial every free weekend irrespective of how far I had to travel. With the price of petrol (and even more-so with diesel) the cost of travelling is simply so high that I only ride in local events. Trials is still excellent value for money but motoring isn't!

Alternative fuel cars will be a common sight in 20 years time (probably well before then) and I guess technical advances in this area will cross into motorsport, including trials.

[DGShannon]

swooshdave, on Jun 18 2008, 10:09 PM, said:

Could be...

Volt?

Tesla Motors: http://www.teslamotors.com/ already makes an all electric roadster.

[swooshdave]

DGShannon, on Jun 19 2008, 11:09 AM, said:

Tesla Motors: http://www.teslamotors.com/ already makes an all electric roadster.

I don"t think they are shipping yet, if you want to consider Tesla a "major" manufacturer. After reading some of the drama surrounding that company I don't know how eager I'd be to give them $100k.

[ZIPPY]

I currently ride a 2000 Sherco 2.9, In 5 years I will be riding............... a 2000 Sherco 2.9.
So buy the bike you know you like.... sounds like 2 stroke. I personally believe that parts will be available for many years for it.
Eventually probably 4-stroke will be the norm unless the political bias against 2 stroke goes away. I would hate to see 2 strokes die.



Personally I think all these "electric, Hybrid, and alternative fuel" vehicles are nothing more than a marketing ploy by the manufacturers to make themselves appear to be environmentally conscious among the general population. And they are doing the bare minimum work and research to comply with the Government mandates of exploring "alternate fuel" options. Besides Auto Manufacturers and "Oil Companies" are basically business partners. Why make it so that the general public is using less gasoline or Diesel???? We have no other choices Built in dependancy.

I won't comment on the price of oil products but will say that my opinion is that oil ain't going away and is actually renewing itself.

Another opinion. If you think that "alternate fuel" of any kind will actually make it cheaper to drive your vehicle.. you are mistaken. The oil companies are no longer calling themselves "Oil Companies" They are now known as "Energy Companies" Therefore no matter what fuel is used to power your vehicle (except maybe solar) the rights and patents will be purchased or taken over by the "Energy Companies" and these fuels will be supplied by the "Energy Companies", and the "Energy Companies" will be setting the prices. And you can bet that the prices will be extremely close to gasoline prices. Reason is simple....profits... the companies like them and want to keep them. Anything that takes away from Gasoline sales, they will want to be selling and at a price that is comparable so they can keep the same profit percentage.


Well there is my sunny outlook on life.

[axulsuv]

Yeah , but Hydrogen works , and you can produce it yourself ... (get your hand off my shoulder , big brother !)

[feetup69]

I am of the opinion that Electric Trials Bikes will make their way on the scene, and if they are viable for competition, more and more people will buy them given a choice of 2T, 4T or kW.. There are so many people out there who are loosing their riding land due to to a myriad of restrictions that just come with combustion engines. Scorpa is apparently working on an electric trials bike, we'll see what they come up with. I'm really interested in seeing how the first serious battery powered trials bike resolves the problem of the clutch, which is necessary for the bigger obstacles. Also, on one of the older Trials TV videos, they briefly show a honda prototype wedged into an Montesa 2000 frame, which never seemed to get any press, and I once came across an electric Gas Gas that Adam Raga was straddling. Again, no info or press there that I've found since.

[madcr500]

feetup69, on Jun 25 2008, 12:36 PM, said:

I am of the opinion that Electric Trials Bikes will make their way on the scene, and if they are viable for competition, more and more people will buy them given a choice of 2T, 4T or kW.. There are so many people out there who are loosing their riding land due to to a myriad of restrictions that just come with combustion engines. Scorpa is apparently working on an electric trials bike, we'll see what they come up with. I'm really interested in seeing how the first serious battery powered trials bike resolves the problem of the clutch, which is necessary for the bigger obstacles. Also, on one of the older Trials TV videos, they briefly show a honda prototype wedged into an Montesa 2000 frame, which never seemed to get any press, and I once came across an electric Gas Gas that Adam Raga was straddling. Again, no info or press there that I've found since.

The problem of the clutch could, no doubt, be solved with many different methods of clever electronic trickery.

Or they could just give it a clutch!

If electric bikes are going to be a hit with riders then they need to emulate the way that a conventional engine responds to the riders input.

There are lots of people and companies developing or researching the possibility of electric bikes, but surely they have to start by looking at what the customer wants and i would say that what we want (if we must) is an electric bike that feels the same to use as a petrol bike. Given the endless possibilities for "tuning" the power output and delivery of an electric motor surely this cant be too difficult.

Of course given the choice i would like all trials bikes to be two strokes and to have all the electric and 4 stroke bikes ground up into small peices and turned into beer cans.

Good job i'm not in charge really isn't it.