nsaqam

I stand corrected.

The ACU Trials & Enduro Committee publicized changes to the A & B Classes in August 2002. This is due to current legislation for attaining a driving licence in the EU and the fact that the FIM are to restrict riders under 18 years of age to a 125cc Class in World Championship Trials. The changes are being phased in until January 2007 as follows: No Alan, I still read that as 2 separate reasons. DL legislation AND FIM rules. The UK is part of the EU, they just have not adopted the Euro as their currency as I understand it. Set me straight all you UK residents.

That's why I hate when you post sideup, you always see right through my deceptions! We are not one and the same but I do cash some hefty checks from Hollywood. Seriously though, I don't know Lane from Adams off ox. (nice Bill Clinton reference there) Quite honestly when I first started reading things on this site I thought "Who is this loud mouth Mich Lin?" But the more I learned and the more I read I began to realize that Mich Lin was espousing views that were similar to my own. I also felt sorry for him for all the abuse you guys heap on him! I may be outspoken and sometimes rash but I'd hate it if you guys piled on me the way you do on him. ishy, I'm glad you'll be attending the next NATC meeting, are they only held once a year? I'll have to ply my local NATC Diplomat with liquor and gifts to ensure that at least one of you Diplomats is on the right side! Would liquor and gifts work on you too? BTW, the proposal is surely not my proposal, I've had nothing to do with it up to now but if Lane thinks that I can add any sort of value to his proposal then I've offered to help, we'll see.

It's great to see the FIM has learned from its mistakes regarding the 4 stroke displacement advantage in MX and is not repeating that atrocious system in trials.

I don't know about EU driving license requirements but the second part of that paragraph says it was to comply with FIM rules. Funny how the NATC mission statement mentions compliance with FIM too. No such rule from the NATC though. YET!

All the modern 2 stroke trials bikes are pre-mix to the best of my knowledge. As for 2 or 4 stroke, the modern 4 stroke trials bike was introduced by Montesa/HRC in 2005 I think. Sherco followed with their own 4 stroke soon after, Scorpa makes a 250cc 4 stroke now too. There may be several other small bore 4 strokes out there too. Unless you're looking for something new or nearly new you'll probably be looking at a 2 stroke. 2 strokes are nice, simple, and easy to work on.

I agree that this topic has been a fun read. Upbeat, nostalgic, and mostly non-confrontational. Thanks Alan.

It's not really surprising when you consider that the ONLY trials exposure around here was the Duluth WRs. No exposure = no interest.

The Federation Internationale Motorcycliste (FIM) establishes the rules for world competition in trials and many other motorcycle sports. It is incumbent on the AMA to follow those rules if our riders are to compete on the world scene. As the trials arm of the AMA we are required in good conscience to review those rules that may differ with our national series rules. The quote above is taken directly from the NATC mission statement. Seems to me that the NATC isn't taking its own mission statement seriously. The second sentence is very telling and it seems that the NATC is abdicating any hope of competing on the world scene by not following the FIM rules.

In the last sentence that you quoted I asked that if you don't think that the NATC should strive for WTC winners, why? Anyone out there can disagree with my preference but tell me why we shouldn't strive for the top. Yes, I have reviewed the NATC website. Yes, I have talked to a diplomat to the NATC. Yes, I do know what the stated goals of the NATC are. I also know that we haven't produced WTC level talent for 2 decades. The proof is right there, the present system produces only mediocre talent. Has for years yet there seems to be no drive to change the system even in the face of this undeniable fact. As for picking some rising talent, I have 3 rising talents living under my roof. I will perform all those functions that you mentioned and many others besides. So don't tell me that I should support some other guys kids if their parents nor their trials organization will. That being said though, I'd happily help writing sponsorship proposals and submitting them if I were to be asked. I'd gladly donate the use of my land and my equipment to help kids train. I'd gladly supervise this training whenever possible. I'd gladly wrench on their bikes if that was required. I'd do anything in my capacity to help some rising talent make it to the top. I just wish that the NATC felt the same as I do and be willing to do whatever these youngsters required to reach the very top. Grown men and women don't need the support that is presently thrown their way by the NATC. Our youngsters need much more. Grown men and women don't cry with joy when they take home a trophy. Our youngsters do. I know which one I'd rather see.

Thanks for the info. I have a TR4 but it's a '66 Triumph convertible and not a bit Beta. It does have an Italian styled body though.

Apparently taking shots at Lane is a popular sport around here. I haven't seen any other proposals put forward that address our pathetic lack of participation in World Class trials. Nevermind winning the WTC, I'd like to see an American battle for 5th place at this point. The NATC hasn't produced a viable WTC contender for 2 decades at least. Their "PRO" class has 5 competitors. Anytime a European competes in our Nationals they win the title like Ahvala and Crosset did. I don't know Lane and I don't know his history but I do know that he shares my desire to have Americans competing for wins against the best. That's enough for me! I am anxiously awaiting any other ideas to achieve the ends I think the NATC should seek. For that matter I'd like hear if you all don't think that the NATC should strive for the goals I've stated. And why?

I surely intend to do my part by helping to rewrite Lanes proposal and helping to educate the presenter if the presenter isn't going to be Lane. I'll also help by researching how the European youth system has worked if that is deemed helpful. I've stated before that I'd do whatever is within my capability to do to shift the focus onto our youth and excellence on the World stage. I'm excited to get going!

I'd say that any of the modern trials bikes from GasGas, Sherco, Beta, Montesa, or Scorpa would have far more capability than you or I'll have for some time. Anything from the late '90s to present I'd say. Make is not a big deal nor is year for the most part, buy based on the condition of the bike more than anything. Hope this helps.

Sir dabs Alot, Very nice post! My first bike ever was a '78 XR75 that I got for Xmas too. I enjoyed reading your post and I agree with Slapshot that this topic is very nice. Thanks Alan!

Smart a**es! I know the K-Roo is a Fantic I have no idea what the heck a Stripey is! Still don't know what a Pinky is! Don't think I want to be royalty, they've always seemed a bit off to me! What am I saying, we have the village idiot as President over here! I didn't vote for the guy though. I want Lane for President!!

I won't turn my back on the NATC but I will do what I can to modify their focus. I think they should be as excited as I am about a US World Champ and should be spending their time and effort on making that a reality within a decade. This proposal of Lanes is where I begin. Finally, there are many thing that I'm passionate about with no hope of participating in. The NFL (GO VIKINGS) and Formula 1 (GO KIMI)for example.

I've been a motorcycle guy my whole life. I remember reading in my bike mags about Bernie and the rest back in the mid '70s. I remember back then the speculation was that trials would really take off in the US, the Japanese manufacturers made trials bikes and the boom never happened. So the WR's weren't my very first exposure to the sport, I knew what trials was and thought it seemed cool and all but I never tried it or saw an event until the '04 Duluth WR. When my then 5 year old girl and I went to that event my daughter thought the motorcycles were neat and she wanted to sit on all the kids bikes in the paddock. I thought the bikes were neat too and we both thought the riding was incredible. Josephine especially liked Laia Sanz, I did too! '05 rolls around and I helped setup a few sections and talked alot to Steve Ahlers. Jo and I and many other family and friends watched both days in the rain. I asked Josephine if she wanted to leave because of the rain and she looked at me like I was stupid. Boy was I proud! I knew after this that my KTM's days were numbered. I bought my girl her first bike that summer and traded my KTM for a trials bike in the winter. Given my love for motorcycles, I knew that I was going to get one for my girl and I considered my choices. If I were to get a MX type bike for her I'd have to make a MX track in my field and worry about all the injury risks associated with MX. If I got a trials bike the injury risk and speed would go down and I could easily make her practice sections as tough or easy as needed without dump trucks full of fill and days on the Bobcat. Simple choice really! Now we can both learn together and she can take it as far as she wants.

Thanks for referring to me as a gentleman, you're very kind. I've only seen four days of trials competition in my life and they were all during the '04 and '05 Duluth World Rounds. I was amazed, my daughter was amazed and we got bikes so we could have a go. Never any hope for me to do anything remotely similar to the WTC folks. My girl may be different though. So for me and my girl, the WTC caused us to become trials riders (I use the term RIDER very loosely in my case)! I plan to continue riding trials to advance my meager skills and to be with my kids. Besides it's fun, challenging, and relatively safe and you don't need to go to a track or have tons of land to ride on.

One question, what the heck is a "Pinky"?

Alan, thanks for your response. I like the local, regional,and national structure. I also like getting involved at the local level. I don't believe that I like the idea of supporting the NATC with the emphasis they presently place on Sportsman riders. I don't think the system is designed to produce World Class talent. I think their record shows that it doesn't produce the best. I think they should be focused on the youth and on producing World Class riders and not providing me a good time. As for the WTC not inspiring folks to take up the sport or buying bikes I don't agree with that at all. I bought 2 bikes and am about to buy a third, HATR bought 2 bikes and his brother bought 1. All as a direct result of seeing a WTC event. Will we ever be World Class? No way! Will my daughter or sons, and HATR's boys? Possibly. They have the time and the youthful energy, they have parents who will support them, they have a love for the WTC events and the riders. My daughter says she wants to take Laia's crown from her. I think we should try to unify clubs and the rules they operate under, I just think that those rules be designed to produce top talent and not geriatric men grinning. We both share a desire to see the sport grow, we just have different ideas as to how that will happen. I think excellence breeds interest. sirhc, I like your post and fully agree that a 125 NC isn't the only piece missing from the US trials scene needed to win at the WTC level. But it's a start. We need a commitment to excellence and I think we're getting there with the TTC and the ITS youth programs. We just need our governing body to share the desire for excellence and do everything in its power to bring excellence about.

The AMA provide legitimacy most importantly. It also provides insurance I believe. As for a stand alone C-ship, I don't have the experience or the deep pockets or the time to pull it off. Very few do. Which is precisely why I would like our present organization to do it. For my daughter, for the other fellows kids, and for the sport. If you feel it to be a bad idea you have the right to point out your concerns with your own proposal.

I'm sure I will speak to Steve about the plan but regardless of what he thinks, I'm still convinced that the plan has merit and will still do whatever I can to make it happen. I'm no politician, I don't want or need polls and focus groups, if I think strongly about something I do my best to advance my point of view. As far as complaining on these forums, you're correct, it achieves little, but being in on this conversation may allow me to work with others of like mind to do what we see as right vis a vis this sport. As to your suggestion that Lane present the proposal himself, I'm not opposed to that in the slightest and I'm sure he would be the first option but if HE feels that for whatever reason he would not be the best option then we need to find the best person for the job and get them on board. Finally Alan, if getting our youth to develop their skills through a system that parallels the system used in the rest of the trials world isn't the answer, what is? How would you propose we develop our future WTC champs? Or is a WTC champ not a worthy or attainable goal? If a WTC champ would not grow the sport in the US, how would you propose we grow the sport? Or is growth not a worthy or attainable goal? Stagnant growth and impoverished importers may be the best that can be hoped for. I hope not!

So ishy, like I said to Alan just a few posts up, the whole landscape is different these days. There can be no possible comparisons drawn between the media exposure available in '79 to that available today. Todays media is bigger by several orders of magnitude. That's not debatable, that's fact. Given this fact, are you saying that a US WTC Champion in '06 would generate no exposure for the sport? Are you saying that the motorcycle media at the very least would not give trials more attention and airtime? Are you saying that our youth would not aspire to be like our US World Champ who they've read about in Dirt Rider mag? On top of that, would not a NATC that focused on our youth and tailored its message toward todays youth not bring in more of them than the present focus? MX in '79 didn't generate anywhere near the money and exposure they do in '06, why cannot it be the same for trials. I think it can with a renewed and retooled focus towards excellence and achievement at the highest level.

I don't know the answer to your question about what line to use but rest assured that the proposal will contain that information. Wait for the proposal and find out. Also, if you believe that a 125 class would be detrimental to the NATC then of course you have the right to submit your own proposal explaining your concerns. I look forward to reading it if you choose to write it.