Kill switch didn't get gronked. The Beta kill switch is notoriously bad any way. Should be replaced with a Yamaha switch.
Carb didn't get knocked of the mounting.
New plug.
Throttle cable isn't pulled.
Spark plug cap screwed on tight and on the plug correctly.
Ignition wiring didn't get pinched in fall.
Cylinder full of fuel. Seen it, done it , got the burned tee shirt.
Note I wrote to self after Bultaco fire. Don't kick it over looking for spark with the plug out is you suspect there is fuel in the cylinder. Fortunately nephew had extinguisher handy.
A fall shouldn't break the electrics unless wire is pinched or the flywheel key is sheared off in which case it was a crash you wouldn't be too anxious to ride after anyway.
It may be a little less obvious then Beta vs Montesa. Don't get me wrong, I love my Beta Rev3 but I've a healthy respect for the Montesa chassis design. I've observed in the past there are a few things that seem like issues with a certain bike that are more setup problems then inherent in the design.
If you find your bike is unable to hold a line you may want to take a good look at your suspension setup. An unbalanced suspension front/rear can make it difficult to ride in the choppy stuff. Depending on how you like to ride most trials suspensions will eat up about 1/3 to 1/2 their travel with the rider static on the bike. You'll probably see mechanics off the bike loading and unloading a foot peg to compress the suspension and watching how it reacts. They're looking for a couple of things. Besides the obvious of spring strength they're looking to see how fast the suspension rebounds as well as the balance of the suspension front/rear. Balance of this type is often overlooked by inexperienced tuners even though is of tremendous importance. Think about having a perfectly tuned front fork. Every hit of the front wheel is absorbed properly. The initial compression involves only the wheel mass and the chassis and rider weight are slowly integrated into the system as the spring releases the stored energy. As the same hit passes under the back wheel the rear suspension with way too much preload transmits rather then absorbs the impact. This causes the rear wheel to lift a much greater percentage of the weight of the rider and bike in a much shorter time span then if the rear suspension was tuned properly. With a step of decent size the fact that the rear suspension is too stiff can transfer considerable energy to the forks as a rotational torque. The abruptness of this can make the handling of any bike tough to control.
The opposite situation can occur with a too soft rear suspension as the front wheel bounces off obstacles and by sheer compressive torque load and unload the rear suspension. With the front and rear suspensions balanced properly there is much less of the rocking horse effect that makes holding a line a full time job. Try the bounce on the peg test for yourself. If you push down on the peg with a foot and the front or back compresses noticeably more then the other you might want to spend a few minutes with the spanners to try to even them out. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. Do note the starting position of the adjustments before you start though so you can return to zero if you really over do it. Once they're balanced then you can tweak the preload to taste keeping an eye on the balance.
The other thing I've noted is that when a bike is reputed to be too powerful it often isn't the power at all but the delivery that is an issue. As an example I had a '95 Beta Techno with the then "new" DelOrto carburetor. The way the bike came jetted from the factory the pilot jet was about two sizes too big and the main was about two sizes too small and the needle was just right. The bike ran OK and seemed to have plenty of power. In fact it seemed to have too much power and was always spitting me off. I found it was almost impossible to time an obstacle because the bike was bogging slightly off idle until it got to about 1/4 throttle. It would suddenly get very interested in the proceedings and make all kinds of power. This caused me to hit things way too hard as I was afraid to stall and subtle throttle corrections during a maneuver had no effect. At first I thought the bike just made too much power. Unfortunately it was impossible to get jets for that particular carb at the time so I replaced it with a Mikuni. Once jetted properly the bike was a different animal. The mid-range power was still impressive but the ramp up to it was butter smooth. It was possible to flow with the bike rather then hammer into obstacles and if I needed to feather the throttle halfway up a climb to regain traction it could be done without the inevitable wheelie and crash with the DelOrto. The same carb swap was done to a friends '95 with similar results.
There's a lot of very good Montesa tuners on here who can help get your bike where it should be. Every bike and rider can benefit from a little custom tuning. Don't settle for less then a properly tuned machine when you don't have to. Once it's setup properly you may still consider switching brands but it won't be because your bike isn't a "good beginners bike"
Note to all...some may not agree with these suspension and tuning beliefs but I'd rather try to help a fellow rider then get into a brand war even though I do appreciate the comments about my beloved Betas.
True enough but the BRC has done nothing around here and that is the problem. We have been divided and are being conquered. The heart of the issue is all politics are local. An organization like BRC and AMA are only as effective as they can be at getting the people they represent to get off their duffs and make themselves heard. Unfortunately as a group off-road riders are notoriously independent and getting them to work together is like trying to herd cats. This has worked in the favor of those who want us gone all too well.
I think this is a good move. AMA can't be promoter and service organization. It's almost impossible to be promoting the same sports you have to regulate. It's all too easy to start chasing the dollar. Now people usually sign up for the AMA because they need to for insurance coverage. The problem is that means a significant number of the non-racers don't sign up believing there's no reason to. If those people can be shown a real benefit to sign up such as a more active AMA political structure more will sign up and the clout of the AMA grows making it even more effective.
Tough call - Satisfy your desire to win a competition or satisfy the people who pay your wages and provide the machinery and team that put you there in the first place! Unless they are rich, I think I know what most people would do!
According to the articles I read the other team riders were there solely to advance Broc to the championship. None of them was in contention for the overall and Yamaha "stacked the deck" by entering riders who had contested other series all year long. I find that more disturbing then just the team order to let Broc by.
This is exactly the reason why NETA does it's end of year trials scoring by recalculating the event points placement only by riders who qualify for year end points. It's a pain but it ensures the scores are rider to rider and can't be influenced by any third party unless they are also in contention for that class.
You can probably get used to a stock 250 or 270 and much of the difference from bike to bike has to do with the state of tune. I've ridden my friends 250 quite a bit and compared to my 270 his is more aggressive. Then again his bike was Donato Miglio's minder bike so I think it's a little... er tweaked. One thing that most will agree on is a bigger engine is more tiring. If you're not able to ride 2-3 days a week or work out the upper body in the gym then a stronger engine is not your friend. It may seem to be no problem in the parking lot but after a few hours you may find it getting ahead of you and that seriously can ruin your enthusiasm. Proof of that is any review of the 125-200cc bikes that usually end with a rave about how much fun the little bikes are.
There are very few novice obstacles that require even the power of a 250 as is demonstrated by my friend Bill who routinely cleans stuff I crash on with his little 200cc four stroke Scorpa. It's more important to find a bike in good shape that feels good to you.
Don't worry about being on the large side. You've got lots of company.
Ohhh the knocking ain't right. I think that's more then the clutch but I'm sure the dealer will straighten it out.
I polished both sides of the tabs. They get jammed into the basket one way under power and the other way when decelerating and I want them to slide easily in both situations. Besides I wasn't too picky about putting them back in the way they came out. Just to be sure we're on the same page here I'm talking about the sides of the tabs where they fit into the slots on the basket. I was looking into making a sort of UBER-clutch for the Beta with nickel plating the basket fingers and coating the tabs with some lubricant like teflon but I sort of ran out of interest once the polishing trick worked. I might still investigate it in the future.
I left the bolts out. They're in my toolbox next to my jet kit. I ordered an '08 but it won't be in for a month so I can't tell you if they have the same issues as my 05. Only way to know is to pull out the clutch pack and look at the tabs on the fiber plates. If they have the rough finish polish them, clean them and put them back and it's a world of difference. Don't just remove two springs without polishing the tabs. That would be a colossal mistake. My theory is the heavier springs are a stop gap fix for the poor bearing surfaces on the fiber plate tabs. If I'm correct then just removing the springs without polishing the tabs will cause clutch slippage.
I've been riding for two years now with four springs and the clutch shows no slippage yet. I thought I felt some yesterday but it was a patch of ice. I'm about 220lbs and ride the clutch constantly It is soooooo good now and my clutch finger doesn't get tired after four hours of riding unlike the the stock clutch. There is one thing that you may find with the clutch and that is the oil is particularly important to the engagement characteristics. A lot of guys will tell you to use automatic transmission fluid. I tried that once in a Beta and the clutch was so grabby it was almost impossible to ride. I use Spectro Golden-Gear oil now and I love the clutch on my '05. After you get a few hours on the bike for break in you might want to change out the gear oil. Sorry to say that if it is the gear oil making your clutch grabby it will take a few oil changes to purge the gearbox of the bad oil.
It's too bad you're not in my neighborhood. I'd have that clutch pack out of your bike and you lovin' that machine in no time. Let me know how it goes and If I can be of any help.
If you've found a bike that makes your heart beat a little faster and puts a smile on your face you win. I wish you many years of trouble free play and may you only need to pick up a wrench when you buy it a present like a titanium muffler. If you come to New England I hope we can go riding.
Really the heart of trials is the local club. That's where you'll find other people to ride with and places to ride. Nothing advances your ability faster then riding with more experienced riders. So the big question is what part of the US are you in.
I hate to ask but is this the DelOrto or was it replaced with a Mikuni? I replaced the DelOrto on my '95 with a Mikuni because I couldn't get jets and it was the best modification I made.
For the money you get a top of-the-line, state-of-the-art competition machine. The fact that you may have to do a little tweaking every few months is pretty amazing. Buy it, ride it and enjoy. You're only going this way once. Besides if you buy a new bike you'll want to spend more time riding then reading the silliness on the forums.
I seem to remember there being a 280 kit for the Techno. In reality if this is his first trials bike and it is in good shape then a 250 will provide all the power he can handle. Welcome to the sport.
Make sure you don't have the lever adjustment in too far. Try backing it off all the way before putting the whole thing back together. The brake and clutch system is self adjusting but to do that the piston in the master cylinders must be able to return all the way back past the hole to the reservoir where the fluid is stored.
It's also possible that the hole to the reservoir is blocked.
4RT no, you can ride them virtually straight off a cold start up.
Scorpa 4T takes some warming up for whatever reason (I've tried 2 and both the same) Don't know why as the YZ250F I was using in enduros warmed up very quickly
From what I've heard the Beta's are rather cold blooded and like a nice warm up. My friends '07 200 Scorpa liked a little warm up time too but what a lovely little bike that is. I got off my 270 Rev3 and putted around on the Scorpa and felt right at home. Could be an EFI vs carb thing.
OH NOOOOO you Dalesman riders are always picking on the Montesas!
he he he
Thanks to this thread you may be able to tell him to replace a sheared off bolt and be done with a $2 repair. Hope that's the case. Then he can ferociously defend his brand and make us all smile.
I was asking about Woody Hole because he borrowed my bike in '92 at the US world round/TDN and I wanted to give him "mad props". While the Italian minder who borrowed my buddy's bike abused it terribly, we have a video of him throwing it down a waterfall, Woody returned my bike washed, lubed and obviously pampered. Even better was in the Duke video for the event on which he did the commentary he said, "The bike I had to ride was, quite nice to say the least." That made my day.
Oh yeah the OP first sentence seems a pretty general question about four strokes. Looks like a good fit for this forum.
No point in being defensive and going into attack mode. I like the fact that such problems can be discussed. In the long run it helps bike sales knowing that a problem is acknowledged and can be fixed. The one thing that will turn me off of buying a brand is denial of a problem.
I'm a Beta rider for many years and I don't have any problem with postings on problems people have had on their Betas. It's how I learned to fix my carb leaking (Thanks Billy T.) and what gave me the impetus to fix my clutch sticking. Did it make me not want a Beta? No, I went from liking my bike to loving it.
We spend real money on these things and the free exchange of information is the most useful function of a community like this. The, "Let's attack the guy who brings up an issue" mentality is the most sophomoric aspect of a public forum and the most likely to turn it into a useless fanboy slugfest. Save it for slagging your buddy's football team where it will do no real damage.
Dan
P.S. Hey Woody, are you the famous Woody Hole of world round renown?
Let's see.... by next endurocross season that'll be about 25 euros or a tank of gas.
Come to think of it the Montesas do pretty good at the endurocross. Maybe the importer should show up with a bunch of bikes and sell them at the races. Could be the greatest guerrilla marketing campaign in the history of trials.
I typed that as a joke but the more I think about it the less odd it seems.
I'm about 220lbs and ride the clutch constantly It is soooooo good now and my clutch finger doesn't get tired after four hours of riding unlike the the stock clutch. There is one thing that you may find with the clutch and that is the oil is particularly important to the engagement characteristics. A lot of guys will tell you to use automatic transmission fluid. I tried that once in a Beta and the clutch was so grabby it was almost impossible to ride. I use Spectro Golden-Gear oil now and I love the clutch on my '05. After you get a few hours on the bike for break in you might want to change out the gear oil. Sorry to say that if it is the gear oil making your clutch grabby it will take a few oil changes to purge the gearbox of the bad oil.
Dead Rev3?
in Beta
Posted
Check the simple things first.
Kill switch didn't get gronked. The Beta kill switch is notoriously bad any way. Should be replaced with a Yamaha switch.
Carb didn't get knocked of the mounting.
New plug.
Throttle cable isn't pulled.
Spark plug cap screwed on tight and on the plug correctly.
Ignition wiring didn't get pinched in fall.
Cylinder full of fuel. Seen it, done it , got the burned tee shirt.
Note I wrote to self after Bultaco fire. Don't kick it over looking for spark with the plug out is you suspect there is fuel in the cylinder. Fortunately nephew had extinguisher handy.
A fall shouldn't break the electrics unless wire is pinched or the flywheel key is sheared off in which case it was a crash you wouldn't be too anxious to ride after anyway.