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john collins

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  1. Yes I agree a picture would help - as I am starting to wonder what you have got there.

    When you did as I asked last time - ie remove all wires and connect to tester/bulb& battery - did the light go out ( or needle swing) when you turned flywheel and the points opened? - I mean completely out ?

    Also - you have changed LT coil - where did you get this ? The wire colours you quoted originally were same as Bultaco genuine ie Black, Red, Green and Red

    If you have used a re- wound coil however these may be different - although most re-wound coils I have seen have not used the same windings as genuine eg have missed out the brake light part. If you have a rewound LT coil - we may have to go back to step1!

    Connections inside flywheel for genuine coil are - black going to points and to condenser - and up to HT coil.

    Green - from LT coil - up to ground. Red - going nowhere

  2. I have just spent a little time trying to look at this from another angle.

    Basically in 2008 calender we have 15 FIM /UEM dates

    1 Inter Centre

    7 British Champ

    Total = 23.

    52 weekends - but of course no-one will want to run on Xmas/New year and some of very early & late weekends - so let asume 40 usable dates - that is more or less leaving out best part of 3 months - and I am not sure we should not be sticking to about 42 - 44 - but let us stay with 40 for now.

    So - 40 available 23 spoken for - Leaves 17 ?

    We are looking for 8. On paper it should not be a problem - But we all know it is - and if we wish to start missing out Non-National - and Prestigeous events - obviously the number of available dates reduces.

    Now it is becoming apparent that something will have to give - although I am not convinced that finding 8 from 17 should not be achievable - with some flexibility?

    So - what will have to change?

    I see the options as:

    a) We remove the opportunity for Youth Top 5 to be able to ride in Brit Adult Champ

    :guinness: We - through date allocation - make it more difficult -or perhaps even impossible for a Youth A to contest both Youth Champ A and ride in Brit Adult - they would have to choose - possibilities here that if they stuck with Youth A - they would probably pick up some Brit Adult - but this would not be certain by any means.

    c) Those riding in UEM and FIM would have to make the decision to forego Youth Championships - and choose International honours instead -

    I must admit I am not too keen on any of above. We cannot keep talking about Federtaions helping Youth progress - and then in next breath - handicap them? - but that may be only my view and it must remain an option.

    However - I hope that about sums it up. My choice is still to try to juggle dates/Championships etc as we have been doing - and will now have to stick with for 08 - but I accept that there is a danger of trying to please everyone and land up pleasing no-one.

    A less democrtaic way - is easy. The T & E Committee in Oct of any year look at the FIM/UEM and Brit calendar - and just pick out say 8 suitable dates - spread widely throughout year - then Clubs are asked who wants to run on one of these 8 dates - no alternatives.

    If more than 1 Club choose date - and all other things are equal - we just work out a pure rotational system

    ( beware this good sounding idea- as it can mean there will be several years before a Club get a chance).

    It also definitely means that Clubs who can run on a part of year that never appeals to FIM/UEM/Brit Champ - get a round year after year - and I have a whole host of complaints about this.

    This is not very far from what actually happens in Brit Adult Champ at present .

    Anyway - I think that is basically it - some hard decisions are going to have to be made.

    It will be important that the people who actualy run - or intend to run rounds have a say - and I would hope that those who actually ride in them wil equally have a say. So I again draw attention to Youth Trials Forum in November.

    Now just in case you think I do not like an argument or challenge - next question which will be high on Forum agenda for 2008 - which rules will we use for Youth Champ - Present - or FIM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  3. Fantastic idea Nick - and I really do mean that - ( not being sarcastic )

    And it - or similar has been thought of /suggested for both Trials & Enduro - and probably MX and R/Race and Grass Track as well.

    Big problem is that the idea relies on the FIM and UEM falling into line - as well as all the other World & European countries - who also have National considerations etc ( just waiting for confirmation this weekend on a UEM enduro which may be affected by an election in that country)

    Also in FIM and UEM terms - it is often the " promoter" that picks the date - Sheffield has suffered from this in past - and these promoters are not in the slightest worried about our UK Championships.

    FIM and UEM really do have their own problems finalising dates - which is why we always face this mad rush in Sept/Oct. If FIM and UEM dates were finalised in say July - it would make the job at least 50% easier - and allow time for more consultation weith clubs and more time to solve problems etc.

    They suffer just as much - and are often waiting for confirmation from organisers etc - who themselves are waiting for confirmation on land etc - the final calendar would not have been announced/confirmed until last Sat/Sunday - the UEM calendar will be confirmed next weekend.

    I am afraid - at present there is little if any chance of that happening - but maybe one day ? I would certainly welcome it.

  4. I must admit I am getting a lit bit lost with this - as well as a little bit fed up - so can we have a reality check.

    Publishing lists of dates - and having votes etc - is a non-starter and there would not be enough time and space to go into al this - buy I can assure you that this sort of system just does not work.

    There are two posts on TC regarding Youth Champ dates - unfortunately they all seem to contain views on the same topic - but it is difficult to switch back and forth - and it does appear that some of the things I am typing here - I am sure I typed a few days ago on the other one - so to get the full picture - everyone needs to read both.

    Now the most important bit - If I had the time - I would this morning count the number of words written in last few days with suggestions to do this or that - or why is this or that done. Obviously there is often a difference of opinion - and this is good - it would be a sad world if we all thought the same.

    We have no problem with this and certainly 99.9999% have been constructive and sincerely meant - and even if criticism

  5. Fair point - and we can have a lok at this - although we are fairly sure some will.

    Biggest problem is that many are still working out deals/sponsorship ( parents money) etc and in Oct 07 can not be sure of where they stand - and also some do early rounds - and only progress if results follow for example.

    I suspect ( from experince of U23 Enduro lads) that intentions/reality may be a bit apart in October - and this is of course the time we have to do calendar.

    But it should be possible to get some idea - and we will see what we can do or find out

  6. The problem is Adsy - if we have Youth ridrs competing in it.

    This would mean that a Youth rider would have to decide that if he wished to contest the World or European Championship - he would have to sacrifice the British Youth Championship. Surely this cannot be good?

    Also of course - his sponsors etc may be very keen for him to win Brit Youth Champ - as this is where they sell their bikes - because he/ she has the desire/bottle/dedication to contest World/UEM - surley we should make him chose?

  7. You may well be correct YSB - in your point that the Youth calendar should not be unduly influenced by clashes with Brit Champ - as only the top 5 riders ride this in any case.

    I suppose you could then also apply this to perhaps World rounds - and perhaps UEM rounds - when sometimes perhaps only a small number compete

    I cannot give a better example than in Enduro ( not Youth example - but principle same) - where again we try to keep Brit Champ away from World Champ - and this makes dates very difficult. I think in some events in 07 - we were down to 1 or 2 riders in World Champ.

    However - that is the principle that was set - and asked for by Youth riders/parents. Surely everyone can see that this makes life much more difficult for us - and if we just put in dates regardless - majority of Clubs would be happy - and we would certainly suffer less criticism - but we are trying to do what we have been asked to do - by those involved - this is why I get frustrated.

    Now - sooner or later - we all have to decide about whether this policy of keeping Brit Adult dates clear - when drawing up Youth Champ needs to be maintained -

    Reading many posts - I have to say that the impression I get is that we do. I could be wrong - but it does appear that the top 5 youth feel they gain a lot when they are allowed to compete in Brit Champ - on Expert sections.

    If the view is that they are not gaining a lot - and it is not worth restricting calendar for - then we can change it

    - Perhaps we need to hear more from these top riders or their parents/ associates?

    I have already said - I think it is important - as I think it allows those top 5 a stepping stone in Europe/World - but I am fairly open minded on this issue - so it is certainly open for more debate.

    Please all be aware however that although the calendar is difficult - it is far from impossible - and there are enough dates - the real problem is that because of land issues/ local events/ tradition etc etc Clubs cannot fit in with the available dates.

    This happens in my own club for our own Brit Champ - and in recent years it has tended to be the ACU sends out a specific list of what dates are available to run Adult Brit Champ ( taking into account FIM/World etc) - and usually there are about 8 available dates - and perhaps we require say 7 -8 rounds - so basically it is " who wants/can run a round on these dates - if not I am afraid there is no alternative - and unfortunately you will not be able to run this particular year" Even this is difficult - as often 2 clubs opt for the same date!

    Perhaps this is the way forward for 2009 - we set specific dates and then see who wants them. Seems a bit heavy handed to me - and we certainly already have emails from people who this year were not successful in getting a Youth A & B round pointing out that it seems to be the same clubs getting a round each year - fair point probably - but it is a fact that if a new club get a round in a particular year - and existing one loses a round - and the problem begins.

    It seems most clubs - certainly my own - believe that the rounds of any particular Champ should rotate - until it comes down to them losing out - and then not happy - but I digress.

    Now - to return to calendar - The problem we are trying to solve at present is Youth A & B. No new dates have been allocated - including S/borough - only suggestions have been made - in hope of finding a quick solution - this will continue all week (and probably result in many hours of work)

    When we are putting dates in provisionally - we obviously consider the ones I have mentioned Brit Champ/UEM/FIM - and then look for spaces. We do try to take heed of the other National dates - and if possible try to work with these - but if the principle is that no Brit Champ round can be placed on a date that not only has a Brit Champ/UEM/FIM round on it

  8. Hi Gregr

    Regardless of what you intend to do carb wise - you realy do need to sort your ifgnition out correctly first.

    The red wire - was just some windings put into the LT coil in order to produce some voltage for a brake light

    ( normal lights worked off the other coil which you discarded)

    Your LT current needs to come from Black wire - so wire the whole thing as I have described. If you eventually need a cut out , and it is always best when sorting out problems to leave it off as it is one less complication - but when you need it - just T into the black wire you have taken to HT coil. You are probably using a plastic junction box - or terminal blocks to connect your black wire from engine to black wire to HT coil - just run an additional black wire from the black connections at junction box to cut out button - which when you press will just actually earth out the black to ground ie handebar.

    Once you have wired corectly as I have said - try to start again.

    If no joy - please do final ignition test - BEFORE - you start playing with carb:

    Dis -connect all the wires from engine at your junction box. I think you have already stated you have saet points to 15 thou - you should have done this by loosly assembling flywheel - but making sure it is home on shaft/keyway.

    Turn flywheel clockwise - until points can be seen through 2nd window - check with 15 thou gauge. I use a filed down one ( in width not thickness!) so it fits easily through flywheel window. If points not correct adust until they are.

    Next - as I have said dis-connect all wires from engine. You now need a continuity tester / or bulb battery home made job - anything as long as you can determine by light going out - or needle of meter swinging - that points are actually braking the circuit( this will not work unless you have dis-connected all wires at junct box)

    If bulb is not going out completely ie you are not getting clean " break" at points - you must sort this out.

    Now is the time to also check ignition timing ( although unless a mile out will not stop a Bultaco from starting.

    Using a plug depth gauge you can determine exact time point are opening etc.

    The re-connect wires and try

  9. It actually gets worse Scorpa - for I am far from sure how we can stick with two.

    Many Youth Organisers - especially Youth Champ ones - are asking that Youth Champ be run under FIM - for same reasons.

    I think everyone accepts we must keep No-Stop - and many events run under this inc S/Miller, Classic, Sidecar and so on.

    Additionaly - the bulk of the country seem to be fairly happy with TSR 22A ( got it right this time) - I know down my end of world for normal Centre Trials this works well - we certainly have no desire to go to FIM for our normal events - but neither do we wish to go ful No -Stop although we have tried this - and of course run our Trail Bike Champ under it. For normal everyday trials we just do not find that full No-Stop is that easy to Observe. I know it perhaps should be - but down here it is not - and Observers are reluctant to give a 5 for that inevitable pause - wheras they will give a 1 - although I admit even that often seems to be happening less than it should.

    I will not add an more until we see the other replies

  10. I feared this would turn into a debate - and I probably did not help by messing up the numbers - but can we return to the request for " One set of rules"

    Despite my mix up with TSR's it is fairly obvious that of about 12 - 14 who have replied - I have to say when you look at the number of views - this is not exactly a high number - it is clear that No- Stop is the clear winner.

    Sorry - I feel going down the road of No - Clutch will just complicate things for me - so please carry on the debate on that one - but leave me out of it!

    So let us make the assumption that the 12-14 who replied - are now the Committee making this decision?

    Without excepetion from these replies - everyone tends to think that No - Stop - should be the only set of rules available to ACU Organisers and ACU riders.

    Now a few givens:

    There is no chance whatsover of FIM rules changing from present ones in 2008 - and not probably for predicatable future.

    Let us not waste time debating it - it is a fact

    All other contries as far as I know are using FIM rules.

    So - if the 15 above decide to go for one set of rules - we must by definition change the British Solo Adult Championship to No -Stop.

    Last year we sent out to al the riders who contest it - and there was a clear majority reply for FIM rules.

    We asked the Organisrs who run it - and again a clear majority for FIM rules.

    So - at this level - our riders want it and the people who organise the trial want it ( I obviously talk about majority)

    We have quite a few riders - who are contesting FIM World Champ - at Junior and Senior level - they all wish to ride on FIM rules at home.

    We have even more riders who contest the European Championship - and they all wish to ride under FIM at home.

    At World and European level - we continue to turn out Champions in the Youth/Junior - all these riders confirm they wish to ride under FIM rules at home.

    Dougie if you ask him - as always been quite adamant that anyone who wishes to contest FIM/UEM should ride under the same rules at home

    But of course - we know most of this - the big question is now - for the 12 - 15 who replied and now form our hyperthetical committee - in order to move to one set of rules - do we immediately change the Adult Brit Solo Championship to No-Stop.

    There can only be two possible answers for this Committee - Yes - Or No

    Over to you guys.

  11. Right Greg - I always tend to try to go back to standard - and often when new non standard bits are fitted this may lead to a problem - so yes I suspect carb as well.

    But first.

    1) You say you have replaced LT coil. Colours that come from original Bultaco LT coil are as follows

    Black - goes to HT Coil

    Green - goes to earth - I always use bolt that hold HT coil to frame.

    Red - on later models is for Brake light only - leave disconnected. Tape up.

    Leave any cut out wires off at present ( they will later just be a T of the black)

    The light coil you have removed - not needed would have had a yellow wire from it.

    So first - just change over the wiring from what you have - to what is correct.

    2) Did the machine run OK with this carb before - or have you bought it as non runner ?

  12. Gregr

    Iam going to look at this for you - merely fotr the reason to keep me away from ACU work and maintain my sanity.

    Step one - Forget blowlamps, aerosols etc to get a Btultaco started - total nonscence.

    Step two. Please post exactly what you have had done. Or what you have had done . I mean exactly.

    Step 3 - Tell me what carb you have on it - exact details

    Step 4 - What ignition - ie - have you changed from standard - the usual mistake made.

    Step 4 - If standard - tell me how it is wired up ie - what colours you have put where?

    Just answer these questions first please and we will try and save you some money

  13. Not quite

    Brit Champ Adult - Usually practice & section fettling etc on Sat. many Clubs who run Adult Brit Champ use Saturday for quite a lot of final work - I know we do. Section tapeing, starts/end cards - last minute route marking , building stage, getting catering in place, toilets arrive and so on.

    Certainly in my Club we would not be keen on taking Friday off work to do this - and we just do not have enough manpower to do both. We would also struggle to get Observers for two days instead of one. I know other clubs who run Brit Solo Champ are same - and certainly, in past some venues were only available for one day.

    To combine Adult and Schoolboy on day - brings on additional problems - although we have considered this.

    E.G to maintain presemt format - there would just not be enough daylight left at end etc - at least not in some of the months.

    More importantly -

    We have several clubs - about 7 - 8 who are good and experinced at running Brit Adult Solo - it does not necessarily follow that they can provide good Schoolboy A & B sections - of course some can - but others have not this experience.

    We have several Clubs - more than above actually - who are good and experinced at running Youth A & B Champ - it does not necessarily follow that they can provide Brit Solo Adult - of course some can - but others - very few actually - have the experince of running Adult Brit Champ under current format.

    Why - just to ease dates would one want to risk chance of messing up both?

    Further to this - quite a few Clubs apply to run Schoolboy A & B - and they are good - but to keep number of rounds down to sensible level - travel/ costs/time etc it is not be that desirable to greatly increase number of rounds - so each year - some are dissapointed - we accept this.

    If say my club - St David's who have worked very hard for many a year now to run Brit Solo Round - were additionally given a Youth A & B round - surely that means that one of the clubs who have worked hard for many years to run a Youth round would miss out?

    My club deserves a Brit Solo Champ round - they do not deserve a Youth A & B. In same way Youth A& B Champ orgainsers deserve a round - they probably do not deserve an Adult round

    If we look at the maths - say 7 Adult and 8 Youth A & B = 15 - if we went for a combined Champ adult & youth - of say 8 rounds - surely 7 clubs - through no fault of their own would miss out - bit of a kick in the teeth I feel?

    Also - often A & B rounds on Sunday - can be combined with a C&D on Sat - this helps parents with two youths riding - perhaps one in A and one in C - this would go out of window ?

    And again - I would not be too happy with some of Adult clubs catering for C & D with no experince in this area.

    So - nothing is simple.

    As I have said - we have allocated a whole day to a Youth Forum - this is place where such ideas will be discussed - but I have to tell you - although there is a week or two to go - as of yesterday there are only two clubs I think who have confirmed they will be attending.

  14. Clubs and Centres will probably have received provision trials calendar for 2008 in last week.

    Please note we have made a balls up of the Youth A & B dates ! Apologies.

    We will do all these again - so please disregard published dates.

    Not and excuse - for we clearly messed up - but as way of some sort of explanation of problems we are having - and some answers for some queries that have arrived about allocation of A & B dates in general.

    A few years ago now at a well attended Trials forum in Rugby - there was a considerable discussion on Youth A & B Championships.

    We are asked for a better spread of dates ie not one weekend after anothe ( hence I say we have made total balls up for 08)

    After much discussion we were asked to try to keep away from FIM, UEM and Brit Solo Adult Champ dates.

    While this obviously only affects some of the riders - these tend to be the top Youth riders - and it does make sense to try to allow them to contest their own Championship ie Youth - and also gain experince - the top 5 - in the Adult Champ.

    It is regarded that this is a stepping stone to UEM and FIM - and we agreed .

    This means that we block out where possible FIM/UEM/Brit Champ dates - and then look for Youth A &B.

    This limits dates somewhat - and a few Clubs are finding that they are losing out - beacuse they can only run at certain times of year because land issue etc - and if this time of year is congested beacuse of the events I have mentioned - their chances of getting a round are reduced.

    We fully accept this - and as you know we have dedicated a whole Forum to Youth matters this year - and this is clearly one item that needs discussion

    In our quest to miss the UEM/FIM and Brit Champ - we took out eye off the ball - and did not pay enough attention to the spread of dates - if you study the actual dates available - this is not that hard to do.

    Anyway - as I have said we are going to re-do the Youth A & B and try to come up with something better

  15. Oh - Bloody hell.

    If ever there was a case for saying things were confusing - Ive just gone and inadvertently made it!

    What I should have typed :

    A) TSR 22 A - Stop Permitted

    :D TSR 22 B - No - Stop - eg Sammy Miller, Classic , Scottish and others

    c) FIM - as Per Brit Champ.

    I think we can assume that everyone who has already posted - meant No-Stop - 22B - as they thankfully also said this as well as my wromg numbers.

    I make it so far a concensus for TSR 22B - No Stop

    Sorry

  16. Every now and again we return to this topic - and probably always will.

    I do not intend to make long drawn out comments ( that's a change!)

    However - please can we look sensibly and constructively at the common request for just

    " One set of rules"

    As an experiment - and without explanation / debate/ opinions - for surely we have done all that - let us start form the premise that " One set of rules would be best"

    These then would be

    A) TSR22 A - No Stop

    :D TSR 22 B - Stop Permitted

    C) FIM - As per Brit Adult Champ.

    If you wish to take part in ths experiment - just post one of the above sentances - no more - and let us just see what one set of rules actually comes up with- then we can take it from there - so just humour me and post one of the above only

  17. It is starting to get complicated now.

    A few things I am not sure about.

    Firstly - please not let us go off on tangents about why this or that should be a round - we can only work with those who have applied - and at this late stage that is more or less done and dusted - caalendar 99% set - October remember.

    a) For simplicity - let us still call it the Classic Championship ( this will change)

    It is then a CHAMPIONSHIOP. Originally - as we have discussed many times - aimed at Pre-65 and Twin Shock - but then O/40 introduced - helped make events viable. Then O /50 introduced - which seemed logical.

    Both O/40 and O/50 on modern bikes.

    Accepted that there was a tendancy in a few events to aim sections a little too much at O/50 & O 40 - this is not how it should be - Organisers written too - and a watchful eye must be kept on this in 08.

    Accepted - that series needs to be Traditional type sections, No - Stop rules, Should not be having the tight turns/steep drops more associated with modern type events - i.e traditional sections we would have ridden in 60'70's.

    Now - In Championship classes - there will surely be riders who expect a challenge - and also who aim at whole series.

    There will also be good riders - who perhaps only do a few rounds - probably those nearest their home - no real problem here - the way to encourage them to do more - must surely be to make the events as enjoyable as possible - and they may want to do whole series.

    I think all above is probably accepted by most.

    Now - as I think posts have shown - there will be riders - who perhaps are not as competative as they once were, who are not too bothered about Championships, age, aching bones, etc etc .

    These riders wish to ride - possibly - like myself - travelling with a few mates who are still competative and wish to contest Championship points - but they would prefer an easier option - especially in perhaps the most testing sections.

    This is the option I take in the Rhayder Classic - I think I could probably still get round the Expert course - but due to age and lack of riding through ACU commitments - I am not sure I would enjoy the day so much - so I ride the Non Expert route - I cannot be that much of a disaster as won that route in 05 - but frankly that was not particularly important as all I really wanted was a great day out - which I had. I had another great day out last year further down the field

    Now the point I wish to make - is if one does not - for any reason - wish to contest a Championship - it must be good to offer some alternative routes - I like the 50% idea - because the rest of route does not become crazy for the rest - as not all contesting Championship will be top riders - but still wish to try.

    On 50% idea - also those who opt for the easier sections - still get to ride half the trial on same sections as Champ riders - and can see how they do, compare with mates on other route ( especially if they beat them on a few of these) - so I think this is worth a try.

    NOW - the bit I am strugling with - but will certainly put your views to T & E on Wednesday - is why does this easier option have to be a CHAMPIONSHIP?

    For me - if I wish to contest a Championship - I would ride this route.

    If I do not think I am up to it ( which is the case) I will take the easier option - ride for enjoyment - and of coyurse try to beat all the others on this route - but I cannot understand why I would need it to be a Championship? I just feel we are trying to have our cake and eat it ?

    At the end of it all we cannot make Championships for every class at every opportunity - frankly it will devalue existing Championships . We are open to suggestions of course - and obviosly I may have got it wrong - and certainly we cannot possibly please everyone.

    What we need now are any more ideas - and on Wed the T &E will look at it al

  18. Fair points . We will look at it again.

    I think the suggestion then is :

    Championship class for O/50 - same as O 40 ?

    Those who wish to Non Championship class - ride Non Championship sections - regardless of Class - no points in any case.

    Class A - Ride Non Champ sections - but for Champ points.

    In all respects when I say Non Championship sections - we mean organiser can mark up to 50% dual route with easier option for Non Champ riders.

    This should mean that 50% sections can be reasonably competative - but as remaining 50% will be ridden by all - this should stop Championship class sections becoming too severe or stupid as the whole entry needs to be able to cope with them

    At least that is what I think I mean.

  19. Sounds like same bike Baldilocks. Not sure who I originally bought it off - as I have bought and sold hundreds if not thousands of them in 35 years as Bult specialist.

    I know I sold it quite a few times ( as you do when money is tight) but always managed to buy it back - strangely usually for more money than I sold it for !

    Some years ago I said enough is enough ( will sell TV or something instead if needs be) - and have kept it ever since - and always will.

    Sometimes I use it quite regulary and other times it can sit for about 6 months or longer.

    It is probably due for a spray job on tank etc about now - but intend to get a few more rides in this year

    Will organise photo's asap

    • Like 1
  20. Yes - Sounds feasable - buy some helmets have them painted etc and rider picks them up.

    Life is never that simple - riders of the top calibre often have contracts with helmet suppliers etc - sometimes at end of year ( for both ISDE and TDN) the helmet they have is often the proto type for next year etc. As I have said for many years we have been down various roads with ISDE - and it has never been easy. Also remeber that often when TDN is outside UK sometimes riders have already been out of UK for many weeks and arrive at TDN on way home - and would be sticking helmet on head for first time etc - no previous try on. For you or me - perhaps not a problem - but top riders want things as they want them. At the end of the day - they ride the bikes - they must be happy with what is on their head.

    All the riders had them sprayed - it was not a hand paint job - but as I have previously mentioned the colour is the colour .

    All this is not rocket science and the riders are consulted - and at present they prefer to handle it themselves - but as stated for 2008 we will look at it for some fair points have been made.

    I will also speak to Dusty Martin ( ISDE Team manager) - possible we can develop a green corporate design for all British Teams - I did explore this some years ago- but the Enduro boys had a sort of different perspective on what they wanted on helmets.

    It will be looked into.

  21. You are not the first to query this Adsy - many others have - and not least the riders who have not always been impressed with Green.

    Reason is that colours for hemets for National teams in FIM events are laid down in the Technical rules Art 01.73 - and the colour for GB is Green.

    Many countries - Spain for example - have Yellow and Red. Poland - White with Red band.

    But for GB - Green.

    As someone has stated it is British Racing Green that we are aiming for - and after a few warnings from FIM in past years becuase we tended to have various shades of green - I punched British Racing green into Google a few weeks ago to try to get definitive colour. I also phoned a couple of paint suppliers hoping to get a code of some sort. If you have some time to kill - try the Google experiment - it is quite interesting with quite a lot of debate about what is or is not British Racuing green. This is mainly form specialist car clubs - who of course want their MG's to be correct etc. One site shows pictures of a whole load of fantastic MG cars - but there is Hunter Greens and Forest greens etc and so it goes on. Quite a few sites actually include paint swatches to try to explain it all.

    When my head started hurting I just sent out a letter to the rider asking them to go for British Racing Green as used on the Rover cars such as the 620 I think it was.

    The helmets were the closest we had ever had them - and in fact the FIM Technical Official commented on it at the Jury meeting and thanked us for making the effort ( after bollocking me strongly - but quite correctly the previous year)

    I think we do need to look at a specific paint job - and see if we can somehow brighten the job up - perhaps building in the Union Jack design - but that does mean collecting in helmets a few weks before event etc and getting them all there together etc ( would not have been so difficult for IOM ) We do it for ISDE - and we will look at it for TDN - as like the rest of you I agree it does tend to look like we have a job lot of emulsion somewhere - but I am afraid we will still be stuck with Green

 
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