funtrials

Just read this thread and you'll see that, even with the benefit of stopping and starting a video(!), people can't come to a concensus on whether something is a five or not: http://www.trialscentral.com/forums/topic/45781-how-many-fives-in-this-clip/

Oliveras in the results page from FIM is listed with no team and no bike.....did Ossa dump him? Great result getting in the top 6, even beating Dibs.

Hehe, I gotta admit, I bet he won't be complaining (he got a threatening letter from the FIM for complaining about the new rules) about the new rules any more.

Toni HAD won 13 total world titles (counting indoor and outdoor together), so he is officially better than Lampkin and Tarres. He'd won 23 STRAIGHT indoor world trials, Dougie never came close to that. But these new rules have created a completely different sport, as we've seen by the fact that for FOUR EVENTS AND COUNTING Bou can't win an event. It's clearly not the same sport, obviously. He's the best ever at trials, but not at Observed Endurocross. Kind of like Taddy would often not even make the top 9 in a world trial, but at world class endurocross events he's been #1 for many years. Different sports. Sorry, Toni, but the FIM has ended your run. But, look, I have to admit that it's nice having the series be much more competitive at the top (3 winners in only 3 venues so far this young season.) Heck, even in the women's series it's a whole new ball-game at the top this year.

Ok, I see you're not a fan of say a 60 second rule, no problem, a 110 second rule would allow the best of both worlds: the magic could once again take place (unlike under the new FIM rules), but with no undue artificial constraints, arguably. I personally think 90 seconds is plenty of time, but maybe we should raise that when the no-stop rules are inevitably overturned. These are examples of undue constraints on me when I ride a section: roll-back (verbotten!) hop front wheel sideways (how dare you!) hop back wheel sideways (verbotten!) hop whole bike sideways (nein, nein, nein!) incredibly hop on the back wheel, in place (they're jealous of Bou, so verbotten!) catch my balance at the top of a huge rock (get along little doggie!) restart my bike in the section (nyet, says comrade Stalin!) stop to flick a little rock out of my path with my front wheel (don't hurt that poor rock!) stop to shift gears spin the back wheel, to get the mud out, while front brake is full-on

BEST POST OF THE WEEK! Yes, just adjust the time limit! 80 seconds....75 seconds....65 seconds, I don't know, but play with THAT figure and not slap a five on a rider for showing incredible skills. Punish him for NOT balancing well, not for balancing well, sheesh. To balance with his bike up at a 50 degree angle, with his front wheel on a big ledge he had to jump, and his back tire perched precariously on a tiny rock, and then to watch him balance and then hop his back wheel onto a DIFFERENT little rock (still up at the 50 degree angle!), and then balance and then jump up that legde for a clean was one the most memorable rides I've ever remembered - Adma Raga (pbuh), a few years ago. Awesome! But the FIM prefers that these gods remain mortal. But when it comes to trials, I'm an enthusiastic THEIST. The FIM wants to EXPOSE the Wizard that's behind the the curtain, while I prefer to let him perform his wonderful magic, unchained. Quarterly corporate profit projections of the manufacturer's trials sub-division just aren't a priority for me, unlike the FIM....but the art of man and machine against nature is a priority.

Now THAT'S a clear, concise, easy to observe, non-subjective rule that's easy to consistently apply uniformly from one rider to the next from one checker to the next! (Joking.) You're seeing one of the big problems. That's one reason why this no-stop experiment FAILED already, a few years ago.

Arguably not as insane as giving Fuji and Bou FIVES (see links to those videos here on this great site) for miracously saving a five by balancing then restarting their bikes in recent world rounds when their bikes stalled...incredible, the maximum penalty for displaying world-class balance (no wonder Fuji was swearing so loudly - in Spanish, interestingly enough.) It's also not as crazy as giving FIVE points for something that only a tiny FRACTION of trials riders can even dream of doing: bouncing, in place, on the back wheel, while the front wheel is incredibly in the air, in an heroic attempt to turn the bike in a tight spot to set up for the next obstacle. That's a FIVE under the new rules! (See Caby doing it in that FIM observer instruction video.) I wonder if the person who basically invented clutch/hop trials riding, King Bernie, thinks the FIM is ruining our beloved sport with their restrictions on our abilities? He never would have invented those things had the CURRENT rules been in effect! Picture that trials icon riding in a straight jacket, basically. I went to a trials school he put on at a national, and yes, we stopped/hopped/clutched (or at least tried), and loved it. Perhaps if the inventor of that techique spoke up, we could get our sport back.

"I am asking you to apologise publicly before the next round of the 2013 FIM Trial World Championship to be held in Sequatchie, USA, on 25-26 May 2013.....we ask you to send to the FIM a copy of the press release you will issue regarding this matter." No, I believe deep down it runs deeper than that...they were intent on having him cow to them, so they put a specfic date for him to cower by (25-26 May), AND they need a copy of it as well. On May 27, had he not cowered, they would have taken further Nazi-like steps to keep him in line. They don't want the truth to get out (the truth is that even the top RIDERS hate the new rule!) Better to make an example of him. If he had LOVED the new rule, but still made remarks about those individuals, they likely would have let it slide. Raga was just speaking out from his love of the sport. When an overlord "asks" you to do something, it's really a COMMAND. They are very thin skinned. The tide will turn, as long as they aren't allowed to get too complacent about this issue. They are fighting for manufacturer/importer profits, but we are fighting for our sport back.

The observers hate it! Completely unfair to ask them to enforce these new rules.

nzpete: oh the FIM WILL INDEED feel the heat if promoters bail on the events due to the boycott. Andy, you make a compelling case, I just hope that the top riders who hate no-stop will give their employers an ear-full on this. Raga railed against the new rules, to the FIM.....I wonder if he told his EMPLOYER how he feels as well!? Would be interesting to know.

Ha, I see your point....I could have added my "reply" to the ORIGINAL POST as one suggestion to people, instead of appearing to just answer my own question. :-)

At one FIM Italian world trials round all the top RIDERS boycotted one of the days (because the sections were too tough), until the overlords listened to reason. It's been done effectively before, it can be done again! Didn't some top Spanish riders (Colomer, etc.) boycott something else awhile back (Spanish nationals or world rounds, I can't remember)?

Something that I've never seen happen is taking place in trials as ALL FIVE of the most recent posts on this forum all concern only ONE topic (the abominable no-stop laws of course)....so is probably one indicator that this topic is not going away until they change the law back.

Raga tried speaking his mind recently, and the FIM threatened him with a vicious letter and demanded he apologize in the letter! When your overlord speaks, you obey...he obeyed. Look it up if you don't believe me. We don't want trials riders thinking for themselves, now do we! Their skin is so thin that a little American-like freedom of expression (our 1st Amendment - you can thank us later) is a threat to their huge egos, it would seem. Apparently this "Raga" fellow is a fairly good trials rider....uh, pretty high ranked in 2013, apparently....not just a serf like the rest of us....but for ANYONE to dare QUESTION our FIM overlords and they'd put him in the stocks, if they could. They are acting like dictators like Saddam who can't stand any free expression or discussion of different ideas. The FIM is enforcing "trials blasphemy laws" (what next, death for blasphemy like under Sharia Law?), obviously, and Raga is just the first casualty. Yes, this is exactly how fascism starts, the powerful (corporate interests, indirectly) silencing the weak (regular trials riders like you and I.) I don't think we should silence no-stop PROPONENTS, like they feel should be done with no-stop CRITICS, by the way, since I have a sense of fairness.

Why not just ALLOW people to stop/hop in sections, and those who DON'T want to stop/hop don't have to stop/hop. :D

I believe that from roughly 1998 through at least 2001 (someone please tell us) it WAS no-stop rules in WTC events (I went to one in person, but not anymore.) So it was a failed experiement. No need to re-learn from that failure. They just CAN'T get out of the "motorcycles aren't meant to stop/hop, etc., they are meant to go fast" type of thinking. To them, a clutch is only there to change gears. As a kid I first got on a TRIALS bike, but they likely got on some go-fast bike as a kid, and can't seem to shake their first-impression of what you do on a motorcycle. I respect their desires, but they should just take up Endurocross if they don't like real trials, not try to change it into something its not.

I hear you. Keeping people in detention w/out charges for 10 years is a travesty of justice.

What can be done to get the FIM to change their ridiculous new rules that handcuff trials riders (in an attempt to appease the corporate interests of the manufacturer$)? Fans not attending world rounds is one idea. Your ideas?

Fascists love to put restrictions on people and control them, often having impure motives for doing so. They seem to be destroying our sport, at least from what it has traditionally been. There is more money in Endurocross/go-fast types of events, and the thinking is that they are doing this for the manufacturers/importers (just like military companies have corrupt influence on leaders of the miliitary)....I doubt a majority of regular riders want to be handcuffed by, what, a committee of 6(?) people half way around the world? People prefer freedom/creativity in the sections, not Nazi-like restrictions from on-high. Unfortunately these no-fun restrictions will trickle down to all levels of trials, and then even young kids, when getting a big grin on their face and trying to hop/rollback/stop/side-bounce for the first time on their newly-acquired TY80 (like me) will be slapped on the wrist by their father, as verbotten. I grew up with FREEDOM on the pegs. Like Hiter Youth, the kid will learn to fall in line to the authority of the almighty manfucturer$ (and their FIM stooges.) Profits before creativity/tradition, I guess that's what it's come down to. I don't like sport being, effectively, run by corporate interests, I prefer it be run by regular trials riders. Our FIM overlords are indeed trying to help the sport, just the sport of Observed Endurocross, unfortunately. Make trials more like the more profitable Enduro, basically.

Don't get me wrong, I respect you and do I value twin shock bikes and riders. Everybody wants something different from trials. I had good times on my twin shock bikes, and locally we have plenty of twinshock riders, and I'm really glad to see them out riding.

Let me translate: "I HATE NO-STOP!!!!!" I think is what he's saying.

I don't blame Fuji, I blame the FIM overlords, including a current FIM overlord in this video, who at the 2:26 mark stops, catches his balance, hops, hops some more, goes BACKWARDS, hops, hops, takes the time to adjust his visor with his throttle hand (all this is while STOPPED), hops, then goes BACKWARDS even some more, then at least 14 SECONDS after he first stopped he then starts towards the huge rock face. This would be, what, 75 points today, Mr. Michaud? BTW, "fun-allowed" trials does need a time limit in the sections, arguably, but other than that let's let boys be boys.

in 2013, except for Bou falling (only 1 position though), and maybe Fuji rising a bit due to his riding style, I'm not really sure that the placings/scores changed much from stop-allowed to no-stop, quite frankly. I'm glad that's the case, but the new rules still force these feet-up gods to ride with a mortal straight-jacket.

When Smage rode in the world rounds in Europe, he was virtually tied with Challoner....and he was real close to Jack in Tennessee....so I have to admit that from that particular point of view (but hey, who knows) he might NOT have done way better had he also practiced the now no-fun rules from the start of the year like the regular world riders (like Challoner of course) did. I'm still very proud of Patrick. Highest Pro class ride by an American in a bazillion years. Thanks Patrick. But after he CLEANED the entire trial in the Junior (or was it Youth?) class that one world trial in Europe a few years back (have you ever seen that before!?), winning the class of course, and then abandoning oversees riding, I'll always wonder "what could have been". What. Could. Have. Been.