I think it is the flatslide they can't have as the roundslide Dellorto is a contemporary carb that was fitted to 70s and 80s twinshocks
Unless their rules have changed again...
Javier will know more. But there's some new changes which seem to be outlawing a fair few of the modified bikes.
Via Google translate this is what I get. Seems there's an OPEN class so I guess those heavily modified bikes compete there.
The asset Sotobike Moto Club has created a new trial championship national classics, teams and with coefficients depending on the age of the bike.
The new championship will be governed by the following rules including:
The MC Sotobike organize the 1 st edition of SOTOBIKE OF CLASSIC TROPHY TEAM, based on these Supplementary Regulations:
1 - 3 races will be scoring the two-day Sotobike organize the MC in 2012 (Robregordo, Pobladura and Los Angeles), scoring 5 days individually for each team, and is therefore facing 5 races you get points for the Trophy. Scoring on Saturday and Sunday and Pobladura Robregordo and Saturday in Los Angeles, performing the award of the Trophy at dinner on Saturday in Los Angeles de San Rafael. It may deduct one result for the Team Trophy total count.
2 - Teams will consist of 3 pilots the same level of difficulty of zones (Yellow, Green and Blue).
3 - Registration of the 3 tests will be mandatory for pilots to 3 teams ranked in the Trophy. The 3 drivers from each team will be starting together. Pilots who wish to participate in the Trophy and fail to form a team, indicate the organizer that includes a "bag of drivers" that can be used to form dichoequipo with other participants who are in the same situation.
4 - There will also be an individual classification in each event for each level (Yellow, Green and Blue), so that every pilot, regardless of being on a team for the Trophy, will have an individual classification in each competition for two days.
5 - trophies in each event will the first-placed team in each level (trophy for each component) and 3 pilots individual finishers in each level.
6 - Each driver may participate with any motorcycle, classic or Postclassic, and perform the chosen level areas, but according to category (old) of the motorcycle is multiply each rider's score by a correction coefficient. The coefficients are:
PRE 65 0.6
PRE 72 0.8
PRE 80 1
80 1.2 POST
1.4 OPEN
1.7 Postclassic
* Example of Equipment. A team consists of the following lights: PILOT, with PRE 65 that does 17 points, PILOT B, POST 80, for 12 points, and C DRIVER, with Postclassic makes 8 points. Team points will be: 17 x 0.6 = 10.2 + 12 x 1.2 = 14.4 + 8 x 1.7 = 13.6 and Team scoring will be: 38.2 POINTS. In the case of individual pilots will use the same coefficients as your motorcycle.
7 - Technical Rules shall apply to the award of coefficients to assign categories to each motorcycle and therefore its pilot.
8 - Regardless of the team and individual classification of each test made on the basis of this Regulation and in the case of scoring for another championship, there will be an Individual Classification and without applying the coefficients that allow each pilot to score at the championships that scores for each race.
9 - In case of withdrawal of any component of a team and looking to the total score of the team, will be awarded to the pilot's last score of its highest rated 20 points, but not declassify this computer the competition.
Technical Rules for the award of coefficients. In applying these rules and scores coefficients, what we try is a simple and practical way, the fact that motorcycles in each category are as similar as possible in performance. But we have also tried to affect as little as possible to changes in fact already under way in classic races.
Article 1 Motorcycles admitted. Generally, for the purpose of consideration and trial motorcycles Classic motorcycles will be accepted equipped with drum brakes and rear suspension two dampers, where no substantial changes have been made with respect to models series produced at the time (which may not therefore equip hydraulic clutch, liquid cooled, etc..) for all categories, except for motorcycles Postclassic to be air cooled, but not required to meet the limitations of drum brakes and rear suspension two buffers.
The Open category will consist of classic motorcycles take to be a component of other motorcycles after the end of the classical era (about 1985) but keeping drum brakes and rear suspension of two buffers.
It is solely the responsibility of the Race Director or Technical Commissioner in his absence, the decision on the admission of each participant in the motorcycle category.
The specific characteristics of motorcycles to be included in each category are determined by these Rules on the basis of its definition in the following technical sections:
-Frame and swingarm (rear fork)
-Motor
-Carburetor
-Front fork and Seatposts
-Wheels and tires
As regards the inclusion in each category (Pre65, Pre72, Pre80, Post80, Open and Postclassic), the organization may decline your acceptance if, during scrutineering changes were observed or assembly of elements belonging to the motorcycle models manufactured in later years and specified in these Regulations, which lead to the inclusion in the category they belong to the modified elements. (For example, riding a motorcycle carburetor Pre72 to Pre80 category will be included in the motorcycle Pre80. And so on with other modifications). Everything that is not specifically stated in these Regulations shall be free in their use.
Article 2 Chassis and swingarm. Both the chassis and the swingarm of the bike are original period as to material composition. Therefore not allow aluminum swingarm Post80 preceding categories, and if the modern rocker is included in the Open category. Changes are permitted level geometry, or rear subframe cuts, but can not be interrupted or cut the chassis under the Pre65 and Pre72 engine. Allowing for modification of the footrests, as well as its attachment to the chassis.
Section 3 Engine. The engines will retain their original design and appearance (cylinders and crankcase covers), himself mounted on the motorcycle model of the time trial. Engines in later models determine the change of category. (For example, the engines of post Aprilia TX 300-Climber-bottom step will determine the Open, like Fantic motors after the 300-303 engines, 305, etc .-). Not permitted in the reed valve Pre65 and Pre72 category.
Section 4 carburetors. Carburetors should be used by trial bikes at the time of each category. So the MKI Amal carburetors mounted Pre65 not handle air, or 65 models from British Villier type, etc.. In Pre72 may also use the Irz, the Amal MK I with handle air and VH Dellorto. In Pre80 be used MKII Amal (square pan), Bing, Dellorto PHBH, etc.. Mikuni and Keihin and the time for Japanese motorcycles. To be able to mount Post80 PHBL Dellorto, Mikuni, etc.
Article 5 and Seatposts front fork. Seatposts and forks holding the front cylinders, both top and bottom, must be original designs of the time. Thus, in the forks will Pre65 pre65 design and centered axis. Marzocchi forks take a single screw Pre80 lower for motorcycles, etc.. All forks later models to those used for classic bikes are included in the Open category. No bottles will be allowed a greater diameter than 38 mm. in classic bikes.
Regarding the seatpost in Pre65 must have both a single screw at each bar or none in the upper yokes older. In Pre72 Bultaco not be mounted lower yokes newer models of Bultaco
Section 6 wheels and tires. The wheels are kept in appearance and materials, the components of the time. So the brake drums are the originals of the time. In the categories Pre65, Pre72 and Pre80, the tires will grip (even tubeless) and will set jaws to the tires with or Papillon.
Article 7 Amendments. But the foregoing, any modification to the specifications of this Technical Regulation, could be approved in advance by the organization in case of doubt or error.
LIST OF MODELS OF MOTORCYCLES (indicative):
- Pre-65: Motorcycle factories trial before 1965.
- Pre-72: Bultaco: Sherpa models 10, 27, 49 and 80. Montesa: Trial 250, Dimensions 247 MK I, II and III (up to Chassis No. 21M6600). Ossa: 4 MAR 1 marches and meetings (chassis No. B340001 and up). Other pre-1972.
- Pre-80: Bultaco: Sherpa models 92, 125, 151, 159, 183, 191, 199 and 199A. Montesa: Cota 247 (all), Cota 172, Cota 348 and Cota 349 1 st series. Ossa: All MAR 250 and 350, and TR77 (green). Honda TL 125, TL 250 and Seeley 200. Yamaha TY 250, TY 350 and TY 175. Suzuki Beamish RL 250 and 250 and 325 (up to Chassis No. 101 601). Kawasaki KT 250. SWM: TL Guanaco (red). Other pre-1980.
- Post-80: Bultaco: Sherpa 199B. Montesa: Cota 349 White and 349 / 4, Cota 350, Cota 200 and 242, and Cota 330. Ossa: Yellow and Orange TR 80, and 303. Merlin: DG 3.50, 350 Gallach Replication and DG 7. Honda: TLR, RS and Reflex. Suzuki Beamish (from Chassis No.: 101 602). SWM: Yellow and Jumbo TLNW 350. Fantic 200, 240 and 300. Aprilia: TR 320 Red, 320 White, and TX 300. Beta: 240 White. Italjet: TR 350 T-350 Green and White. Garelli: Trial 320. Other classic bikes.
Postclassic: Montesa: Cota 304, 125, 335, 307, 309 and 310, JJ Cobas: Trial. Merlin: FIUs and DG88. JP: 325 tr. Alfer: TX 300 Red and Green. Mecatecno: MR 326, Dragonfly and Skywalker. Gas: Halley and Trial 327. Fantic: 301, 303, 305 and 307. Aprilia TX 311, TX 311M and 312M TX. Beta: TR 32, TR 33, TR 34 and TR 35. Garelli: Trial Section 323 and 323. Honda: RTL, TLM and TLR250R. Yamaha TY 250 Mono, TY and Tyz 250R. Other air-cooled motorcycles.
just had another quick play with it.... right when i pull the kickstarter, everything happens as it should piston etc. but the front sprocket spins too, so i then grabbed the front sprocket and held it whilst pulling the kick starter and it didn't spin.... also the sprocket will turn freely by hand without the piston going aswel. so it's obviously in neutral, but it won't click down or up into gear! arghhh!!
Static gearchange tests are not always possible. Try shifting whilst turning the final drive sprocket. The dogs and slots on the gears need to line up for a shift to take place.
I cant see what all the fuss is about,I've just got back from a VMCC trial where I rode amongst 80 odd Brit bikes with just a handful of twinshocks.Mostly pre unit,from shed to posh,barb wire to polished billet.We all had a damn good thrash round and nobody moaned about me having modern levers on me HT.
Move to the South West if you want to ride or see old bikes being used....
Sounds more like the trials down here when I was riding more regularly. We used to get allsorts from barely viable Bantams to a HRD Comet in various states/quality of conversion + the just dug out the shed twinshocks and the then modern stuff.
Everyone had a good time. Sadly that club is no more!
Unless you can call using European or Japanese hubs, a pair of Ossa or Yamaha (in line spindle, look the same as MP) forks instead of 'hiding' them in some Norton or suchlike sliders, European or Japanese yokes, cheating. Hard to see how though as cheating implies gaining advantage by breaking rules and none of those give any advantage over the accepted billet replacements for those components - other than a reduced cost.
Woody
You consistently highlight the apparent double standards and I agree with you!
My pre65 experience is minimal but I know at least to me some some of those bike are horrible to ride. I borrowed a B40 in Spain a couple years ago for practice, I think it was less than 45 minutes later I swapped bikes for a Cota 330 because I knew that Beesa was beating me black n blue! I however ride for the enjoyment no other reason.
Hi all, my bike has been running for a wee while now, and I'm amazed at how capable it is. Having great fun on it and it makes a nice change from the modern bike.
However, the Bulto runs well for maybe half an hour, then will stall, and is a right pig to start. After getting it running, it runs for shorter and shorter periods before bogging/stalling. On inspection, there is plenty fuel in the bowl, and the plug is a little sooty, but not too bad. I'm starting to think hillclimbs and hopping logs make it prone to stalling. Not much to go on, but any ideas?
Chris
Still on points ignition? If so change your condensor and while you're at it relocate it to under the tank.
If that fails or not on points then start looking for other issues like crank seal condition.
. He told be that he couldn't care two ******* about any regulations, as everybody does it and get's away with it. Has honesty also left our sport ! ?.
Thats the problem. It's not about the integrety. The precedent has been set years ago, by who knows who?
I know Miller was using fiddle forks at least from the time in the mid 80's when I was in a position to see the Ariel on a regular basis. It was possibly done much earlier.
I think there is maybe too much emphasis on the Scottish 2day pre65. It's not the be all and end all in pre65.
But talking about that and the top accepted bikes what class would say the Yorkshire Classic or Bath Classic club put those same bikes in? I note they allow non British Carbs on Cubs?
Just ride for the fun of it I guess. I only have a passing interest in the pre65 Scottish to be honest, I like to see how the people I personally know get on, and study the pictures of the bikes after the event! It's my opinion that bar a very few bikes it has no real historic significance anyway, it's gotten too competitive for that now.
I think they all excel in the class department. I wouldnt be surprised if they ride well too. Often if it looks right, it is. One of those Bianchi's has obviously seen some action somewhere.
+1, this summ's it up very well I believe (not sure???).
These French and Italian builders have this kind of passion while doing things. Their ability to combination technic and design is special, another one:
I forgot to post that twin carb bianchi. It's simply STUNNING! Looks to borrow some Ossa cues maybe?
It's amazing to think it started out as one of these!
The other Bianchi was this bike
Morphed into this
It's interesting that he's managed to work with the original styling of rear of the frame.
Has I said, Built with love to be a bit diferent. You can just see the hours put into them, and not a load of dosh threw at them, to make them look all the same. I bet the owners treat riding them has a secondry measure.
Regards Charlie.
It's good to be different I think!
I know with my own project I have some serious obstacles to overcome but I'm sure I can work something out.
The italian engines are a little more bulky in the cases that the same period Brit engines. The finned wet sump makes them a bit taller too.
I'm most torn over what forks to use. They will probably end up being British at least externally. I do have some 4 stud triumph sliders here somewhere. Have no idea what they are off though.
I think my next job is to reassemble the top end and get the motor running.
Super bike's the lot of them. and you can see the time and effort put into every one, along with what looks like a lot of love.
Question is how much money do you think each one of them have cost to build?
More or less than the reputed 15-20K being lavished on one entry in that "Scottish two day trial" this year?
Regards Charlie.
I'd hope a lot less Charlie. I think there's likely a completely different ethos behind these bikes. Certainly is around mine, which is more for personal satisfaction than anything else. Plus I like to try to be at least a little bit different to the norm.
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Modern Carb On A 340
in Bultaco
Posted
They were used a lot in Karting circles as far as I remember.
I certainly remember a flatslide that was plastic bodied used on Karts.