Sammy Miller Series

[trickymicky]

A letter has been sent out with regulations for the next events in the above series. Its from the ACU Trials and Enduro Commitee. Basically it says a protest has been received regarding eligibility of certain bikes which have been competing in the series.

It goes on to say that at future events there will be strict machine examination for compliance with the regulations especially in regard to class eligibility.

Sounds like a good idea, although a shame if things have been allowed to get out of hand in the first place. Maybe it will encourage more to have a ride in this excellent series.

[totalshell]

entirely laudable that the rules should be followed in p65 trials..

however i think that its a bit like bolting the door after the horse has bolted, got all the way to the channel done a european tour ( via france italy and spending a fair time in spain before it took a layover in Japan )than fed up it returned home with the addition of a few 'new parts' and the use of present day materials and tools to remanufacture 'worn out' bits and bobs where suitable organ donors were in short supply and then was entered in next weeks race at Ascot

the rules for p65 have been argued and discussed several times and while they remain as vague as at present with jap carbs not allowed but brand new forks turned down to fit in cub sliders are ok etc etc we get what we deserve... rising costs tougher sections and falling entries

competition is what it is and whilst a riders skill and experience count for a massive part in 2006 we must accept that the best riders with machining skills and those with fat wallets will compete to make their bikes as competitive as possible ( the rise in the number of cubs in recent years at the cost of declining pre unit and even two strokes been a perfect example)

we dont all ride to win if we did less than half a dozen every weekend would go home happy, the VAST majority of us ride to participate and to fettle during the week to make our bike more 'rideable'. So that we spend our sunday mornings riding sections not struggling to ride the bike in the first place

so if i have electronic ignition a jap carb and trick forks with billet alloy parts and a cut and shut frame with the head angle steeper than intended as a result of cutting the down tube and riding at the garage wall so be it at least i'll be out riding making my hobby a viable sport for those that care to or are good enough to win

yes it might not be authentic pre 65 trials as it was pre 1965 but it's still a trial and no matter what most of us ride the best rider will still win..

after all does n't Mr lampkin ride the most technologically developed trials motorcycle ever on which NO expense has been spared and yet how often is he winning..

[twinshockdude]

i thought the reason entries are falling at sammy miller rounds is that they are so easy it is`nt worth the effort to drive 100 miles to them.almost every result i have seen,mainly 2004/5,was the class winner dropping zero.sounds more like green laneing than trials.i`ll go and hide now from the enevitable abuse!!!

[twinshockdude]

the second man usually dropped a couple,but i take your point about the last guy,perhaps he would have more fun green laneing.

[old trials fanatic]

Well said Big John.

I remember posting ages ago when i was building the B40 that i was amazed that there were not ACU published regs for what was and what was not allowed re the construction of a "Pre65" bike.

There are probably as many permutations as there are people on this one so why have formal rules not been laid down before that apply to ALL bikes entering. Why is a Jap carb ok on a Cub but not on a B40? Why are Arials given carte blanche to be modified ad infinitum when other bikes are not? Surely if a Jap carb is ok on one make then it should be allowed on ALL makes same with other mods.

Re the post from twinshockdude i feel his point is based on his own ability NOT on the ability of the rank and file Clubmen who used to enter trials which he helped organise. Not having a dig just an observation made after talking to riders and himself. Nothing wrong in wanting stiff trials but dont assume ALL riders are able to or want to throw themselves and their bikes, which probably cost them an arm and a leg to build, at rock steps and drop offs that 20 years ago would have only been attempted in National trials.

If the Sammy Miller rounds are suffering from a lack of entries then i feel it may have more to do with the ridiculous cost of building a "competitive" elegible bike. This is mainly down to the ridiculous situation when you have to hide modern fork internals and other trick / fiddle bits on the bike just to stay competitive. For instance a pair of forks from a breaker approx

Edited September 5, 2006 by Old trials fanatic

[twinshockdude]

i pretty much agree with old trials fanatic,the point i was trying to make is that the sammy miller series is supposed to be the premier national pre 65 championship,and therefore should cater more to the national standard rider.i know this is totally against the modern pc world we live in but hey,who cares.

[scorpa3]

The Stratford-Upon-Avon club run the Union Jack trial as part of the Miller series.

We are lucky because we have a strong British bike interest in the club, who work together with the 'modern' bike members.

We help each other out, The Colmore is a modern bounce and hop style National and the Union Jack is a traditional pre-65 event.

Two years ago, the Miller series dropped the trail bike championship. I personally never understood why, the trail bikes made up the numbers thus making some of the poorer attended rounds viable.

Due to this, the Stratford club decided to hold a trial aimed at trail bikes. We reserected an old trial named the OK Supreme and used our (very poorly subscribed) Group trial date to put it on. The 24th September this year!

The Ok Supreme attracted over 100 entries and is now a National trial bike trial. The sections are easy, wide and in the main, straight forward. The winner is almost guaranteed to finish on under five, with a special timed test being the tie break.

The trial is open to any road legal machine and there is a class for British bikes.

Note that I say British bike and not pre-65. As we already run a National trial for Pre-65's (with 9 or 10 different classes!) we decided to keep things simple and just insist on the engine and frame be of British manufacture.

The format works, and whilst I'm certainly NOT suggesting that classic trials should do the same, our strategy of simple, wide and generally easy sections and relaxed classes has really paid off.

The OK Supreme winner could just as easily be on a B40 as a Beta Alp... or for that matter a mid 80's Armstrong!

You could say it's an excuse for a trail ride around the Cotswold hills and you'd probably be right, but it is a damn good trail ride and very popular.

[old trials fanatic]

I do like the sound of that Scorpa3. Simple to the point and strangely more in the true spirit of competition in the late 60's when who didnt fit a Honda 50 front hub etc into their trials iron to save weight? Brakes were crap but then again in those days we tended to ride up hills etc not down drop offs.

I do like the idea of British engine and British frame and the rest is free. Only problem is if i build a TLR replica frame in my garage in Derbyshire then it is British built after all. I remember a bloke turning up at a Midland Classic event at Bonsal Moor on a BSA B40 engined bike with the most beautiful chrome moly tube frame. Looked like a Spondon race bike. Drop dead georgeous but so un Pre65 c/w laid down shocks, tank mounted between the top tubes looked almost Gas Gas.

As long as the frame is "period" and the engine is British to start with with a class structure 4 strokes verses 2 strokes it all sounds good to me. Perhaps then Pre65 could actually mean what it says and some more original bikes could re emerge from the sheds to run in their own class.

Plus trail bikes are such a good way to get new blood interested in the sport. Cheep too.

Bout time a bit of common sense was applied.

As for the Sammy Miller rounds then as a National series they should reflect that status. Tighter application of the construction regs. sections should be tough but in line with the Classic style of section used in the late 60's and early 70's. i.e. 3 or 4 connecting sub sections in and along stream beds and climbs.

How about incorporating a stop and restart test along with a timed and observed section all used as a tie breaker. Showing my age now so i'd better shut up

Thanks Scorpa 3 bloody good idea.

Edited September 5, 2006 by Old trials fanatic

[paioli]

trick pre65 bikes should be put into a class of there own , and the pre65 scottish should have

a special class, and one award which they all compete for, leaving the main awards for all the

more oridgnal bikes . they also need to ease the sections for these bikes, it seems

to me that the more trick these bikes have got, the harder the sections have got.

the sammy series use to run this way before they let the twinshocks into the special class,

what they need to do is make a seperate twinshock class and get all the modified pre65's

back into the specials class, there by still keeping the oridgnal riders and hopefully bringing

back some of the riders who have had enough of compeating against trick bikes in the same

class.

[paioli]

the way that reply came out i think my computer has a death wish!

[woody]

The Sammy Miller series was introduced for the standard, unmodified bikes as an alternative to the ACU Classic in which they were no longer competitive, offering older traditional type sections. If you ride a (relatively) unmodified bike the sections are a reasonable challenge and a good ride around a big lap too. If you ride a trick bike and are a decent rider then it will be very easy. I suspect the drop off is more to do with the increase in trick bikes being ridden outside the specials class and wiping the floor with the standard bikes. Not many bikes in standard trim at the last round as far as I can remember.

For a harder challenge on a modified pre65, there is the ACU Classic series.

[paioli]

one more rant, so far this year we have had red,blue,white,yellow and green section marking

can't the acu state the sections be marked blue left, red right and white alternative route

for all the sammy and classic rounds

getting lost in a section does p**s me off !!!

[scorpa3]

"Five" signals the observer, I enquire why. "The two whites you went through mark the left of the section, you should have gone through the other pair!"

I must say, one of my all time hates is the use of pairs of the same colour to mark out a section.

I really wish clubs would either use blue left, red right with yellow left and green right for the easy route. Or if they must use pairs of the same colour, then at least make them arrows.

If a rider rides the wrong side of an arrow they can't moan.

[paioli]

going to the rose bowl this sunday, got to follow white marking or red and blue if told ,

toys could be coming out of pram !!!

[old trials fanatic]

I always think it works best when the Clubman route has one exit missing out the more difficult bit and the hard route has a different exit including the difficult bit. Keep it simple just like me

I've never ridden a trial with more then just two routes and i find that confusing at times.

I know it's not always possible but do prefer the Clubman exit here Hard route carry on idea. Much less confusing.