Andy Posted April 8, 2007 Report Share Posted April 8, 2007 REMEMBER my column of a few weeks ago Is It Bou Or His Bike? Well who cares what it is except that Toni Bou started off the Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordi Posted April 8, 2007 Report Share Posted April 8, 2007 Wholeheartly agree regarding sidecars and the Classic series, the ACU have to keep the two national series apart. By all means have a solo support if required for the sidecars, but at least you would have the choice of entering. Unfortunately there is another round coming up during the year that always combines the two championships, and this is always the worst round of the year for the Classic series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottt Posted April 9, 2007 Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 but to all organisers, do please think about your customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exiled yorkshireman Posted April 10, 2007 Report Share Posted April 10, 2007 but to all organisers, do please think about your customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizza5 Posted April 10, 2007 Report Share Posted April 10, 2007 To be fair to Mike he was mainly talking about a National Trial here and I know of 3 people that I talked to saying it was far too easy for a National, some people travel a long way to participate in a National and expect a bit of a challenge, this particular trial wasn't hence the article. As far as the beginers route at your local trial, then it might be advisable to go along and have a look at a few first, even observe!! until you think you are at the standard where you feel confident at having a go. There will be a never ending debate about trials being too hard, too easy, but we still go out there and enjoy ourselves reaping the pleasure from the organisers hard work, maybe the organisers didn't get it wrong and catered for the sidecars, but that opens a whole new debate!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilco Posted April 10, 2007 Report Share Posted April 10, 2007 It's to Easy..It's to hard. How many time's have you heard rider's using them word's at any trial,to many time's in my opinion,those negative view's really pee's me off when im enjoying my ride. Why don't people phone the club before hand to find out what kind of trial it's gonna be before hand that way they'd know what there turning up to, and i dont have to listen to there negative view's about the trial. Sod being an organiser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exiled yorkshireman Posted April 10, 2007 Report Share Posted April 10, 2007 hmmm....can't speak for scott but i do ring up and ask. Point i was trying to make was someones version of easy who has been riding 20 years and my version with 6 months experience will differ I think the point you missed was the 'listen to your customer' bit mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted April 10, 2007 Report Share Posted April 10, 2007 I have not competed in the Classic series for just this reason, and think that the solos are "supporting" the ridiculous sidecars. If they cannot stand alone then make sure the effort is put into the solo route as well, the organisers are taking advantage of the fact that riders competing in the sries have no choice. On the subject of severity the classics can have dual routes why was this not employed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilco Posted April 10, 2007 Report Share Posted April 10, 2007 (edited) hmmm....can't speak for scott but i do ring up and ask. Point i was trying to make was someones version of easy who has been riding 20 years and my version with 6 months experience will differI think the point you missed was the 'listen to your customer' bit mate I do get your point,we was all new to trial's whenever we started,we've all broken our bike's and hurt ourselve's during that time,that's called experiance. most rider's could stay in the easy route for a year or more from when they started,still learning how to ride there bike's, so they have to keep the route progressive for everyone ridding it. If they make it to easy then you'd think your ready to move up a class before your ready to move up and that could hurt you even more. Your know when your ready to move up,your be saying to yourself this is to easy. If any one think's they can move to harder route within say 2 month's they'd have to think again it don't work like that.There's no free ticket in this game. People have alllway's come and gone from trial's so that's nothing new..you either love it or hate it. Making there route easier wont keep them in the sport. No pain no game. Edited April 10, 2007 by bilco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikespace Posted April 10, 2007 Report Share Posted April 10, 2007 It's a possibility that the Clerk of the Course was caught a little bit by surprise. I think I probably would have been. I was observing, but quite surprised at the level of rider, such as Simon Levett/Roger Williams. Historically the trial has been sidecar championship, and I think generally hit the spot for them, but I'm not sure how the Classic Championship became involved this year? I'm not going to comment as I wasn't able to get involved in any way so I don't feel I can knock anyone that did. I know they put in a massive amount of work to get the trial together, so it's a shame if it didn't quite hit the spot. I think from what I hear, the general organisation wasn't in doubt, but maybe did need the two routes for the classics? I'm treading carefully as I know it's horrible when you've finished your masterpiece to find you missed the target in any way. Hopefully we'll still have the same people involved next year, maybe with some others to allow the extra route planning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted April 10, 2007 Report Share Posted April 10, 2007 Extra route planning is not an onerous task just a few strategic gates here and there and as for underestimating the abilities have they not run rounds before? I'm with rappers on this and feel shortchanged as these riders doing the most rounds of any British Championships are being seriously shortchanged and not just this round either. I do not think simon l or Roger w going round for one or two is a problem, its the general level of difficulty that is way out. In fact there was only one or two testing sections on the lancs county trial that mike laid on and had the weather been a fair bit better scores would generally have been alot lower I feel, in fact I think I cleaned every section at least once, but i could be wrong. The difference between these two championship trials however is the final scores of all riders and if the top 8 or so are under 10 in any class its not a fair test at all, and not worthy of the championship status. The richmond 3 day will extract more marks in a morning than some 3 rounds of the classic and I would bet the enjoyment is in direct relation to marks lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikespace Posted April 10, 2007 Report Share Posted April 10, 2007 Extra route planning is not an onerous task just a few strategic gates here and there and as for underestimating the abilities have they not run rounds before? I don't think they have run a round of the Classic Championships to be fair. I think the experience was on the sidecar front? But not sure of that? My comments about the extra people for route planning were (in my own mind) aimed at maybe having people who may be more in tune with the classic scene, rather than just extra people. I know you can throw numbers at anything, but it don't always work. I do sympathise with both sides. I don't tend to criticise CofC's generally (can't think of many exceptions), but that's just my choice, and I know some of the people that have offered criticism put in enough effort throughout the year to qualify with an opinion, you included from what I hear Dabster. I think maybe the classic scene round here is very low level and it may have been an eye opener. Hopefully the result is a bigger better trial next year rather than a return to the previous Sidecar championship only, with support clubman solo. P.S. Please don't accept my comments as those of the organisers, I don't know what the ins and outs were, and I may be misrepresenting them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpa3 Posted April 10, 2007 Report Share Posted April 10, 2007 I am the Clerk of the Course for a Sammy Miller Classice round in May. Fortunately, the Miller series is designed as an easier championship than the Classic series, so my aim is to get the winner around on (or very close to) clean, thus giving the lesser/older/genuine classic, riders a chance of enjoying the event. Even with two routes available, it is extremely difficult to get the severity just right. Take eight or nine from the winner and you can guarantee the last 25% of the entry will loose over 100. I would agree that I would be unhappy to have five riders in the same class go clean, however if that did happen, a result would still be found using the special test tie break. Riders will vote with their feet, so it will boil down to economics. If those who didn't enjoy the trial don't enter next year, how many will we loose? Put it another way.... What number of Classic riders are put off by a hard trial compared to the number who will be put off by an easy one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikespace Posted April 10, 2007 Report Share Posted April 10, 2007 (edited) I would agree that I would be unhappy to have five riders in the same class go clean Just in case there's any confusion, the riders who went round clean were in 3 or 4 separate classes. I think there was at least one class with two riders on clean and that's very unfortunate, and I'm sure not aimed for by the organisers. Bear in mind that some of these riders are still riding some of the Novogar series, and some of them on the same bikes - we're not talking twinshock Fantics for some of them, but 4rt's, Scorpas, and Beta. Bear in mind also that this trial was devised over a series of 4 or 5 weekends in which there had been snow and torrential rain, gale force winds the day before drying things out (anybody notice the intended results tent blown in to the lake - replaced on the morning of the trial), then the day of the trial was t-shirt and sun tan weather bathing in the sun with hard packed ground. I wouldn't defend it half as much if I had been something to do with it, but I do feel a tad of sympathy for the poor beggars that sorted it out, who incidentally may well admit it turned out on the easy side. Having said that - I still had one rider trying to barter to make my section wider by riding around the flags he'd just used to go up the hill (crossing his path). When I pointed out the boundary (the flag), he sarcastically asked if I wanted to get on his bike and show him how to do it. Of course i ****in did, the last thing i want to do on a Sunday is watch a load of old duffers ride round and whinge about the sections they were cleaning when I could be out riding (like an old duffer). Edited April 10, 2007 by bikespace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpa3 Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 I'm sorry if my reply was taken as critisism of the organisers. That was certainly not my intention. I merely meant that 'I' would be unhappy if five riders in the same class went clean. In the Miller rounds, we don't have the problem of Over40's/50's on modern bikes to take marks from. It's hard enough getting the severity right for the best riders on 'classic' bikes. Going on from my second point..... I just think that an easy trial attracts more riders than it puts off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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