hensley Posted May 12, 2007 Report Share Posted May 12, 2007 I recently purchased an 04 raga from a friend with very little time on it. The clutch after riding for about an hour or so starts creeping. He bought it when it was one month old to solve the problem converted to dot 5 put a couple of kits in the master cylinder then decided the master cylinder was bad and put a new one on. he rebuilt the top hat when he converted to dot 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowbrow Posted May 12, 2007 Report Share Posted May 12, 2007 The 04 Raga should have mineral oil not brake fluid. What colour is the top of the master cylinder? If its green then you should be using mineral oil. Maybe your friend 'converted' it and changed all the seals? Maybe you've got a mixture of each type? Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowbrow Posted May 12, 2007 Report Share Posted May 12, 2007 Sorry, Mate, just re-read your post. The advantage of mineral oil is that the gearbox oil doesn't affect the seals in the top hat. When using brake fluid the seals can give up over time even if the bike hasn't been used much. Whichever fluid you use I'd change the top hat seal and O ring and check the pack height while you're at it just to be thorough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterb Posted May 12, 2007 Report Share Posted May 12, 2007 Hi Hensley, The 04 Raga would be a 2005 spec bike, which does have mineral oil clutch actuation. These usually give no problems. On some of the older AJP masters, the odd one came from AJP with the inner cylinder already scored:) - this may have been the initial problem. Or, it may have been a combination of passing seals in the master or slave. As MPM suggests, check the clutch pack height, should be 9.75mm plus or minus 0.1mm. Too much height indicates the fibres have swollen, usually due to water in the oil or using a synthetic oil. This causes the spring actuation levers to reduce their actuation angle and reduce the levering efficiency causing a high pull on the clutch h'bar lever. Maybe the previous owner did not replace the clutch hose when changing over to hydraulic oil which would then contaminate the new seals. I guess then, you really need to start all over again and fit the system up with all mineral oil parts - new master with green lid, new hose, new seals for the slave (MT280432047 O ring and MT280532049 cup seal). Good luck, PeterB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hensley Posted May 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2007 It came new with a mineral oil clutch with dot 5 put in as a factory screw up more than one came that way to the U.S. my friend converted it to dot5 replaced top hat seals replaced mastercyl rebuild twice then a new master cylinder thinking the old one was scored. Update dont know if this makes any since started bike today it was screwing up when we parked it last clutch was fine i ran it about 10 minutes changed oil used type f 360cc instead of gm autotrac that was in it bike started it up and it began to creep then it would stop creping then start again starting over from scratch would be probly the best solution. btw i did notice that when you engage the clutch with the bike not running there is a slightly difeerent sound louder than on my other gas gas could i have gotten two scored master cylinders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterb Posted May 13, 2007 Report Share Posted May 13, 2007 Hi Hensley, It can be real frustrating going through everything and still not getting a successful conclusion. Was the clutch hose replaced when the conversion to Dot 5 was done? If not then there is still a strong possibility of contamination. I hadn't heard of any oil fill problems from the factory, maybe there are one or two like that in other areas. I don't know of the type F oil but Auto Track II has been given the ok. May be the sound is a dry clutch lever pushing on the piston. Looks like you may have to start afresh - remeber the hose! The 04 Raga should have 550ml from complete empty, about 500ml needed when re-filling. Good luck, Peter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hensley Posted May 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2007 The 04 Raga should have 550ml from complete empty, about 500ml needed when re-filling. Now i am confused The first gas gas i was around was my sons 03 200 when we got it the clutch would creep all over the place. I had the book recomended 525 ml someone sugested i run 350 cc that fixed the problem. Ive been running about 380cc in all my pros which brings up maybe another topic all together, how much oil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAD1 Posted May 16, 2007 Report Share Posted May 16, 2007 The 04 Raga should have 550ml from complete empty, about 500ml needed when re-filling. Now i am confused The first gas gas i was around was my sons 03 200 when we got it the clutch would creep all over the place. I had the book recomended 525 ml someone sugested i run 350 cc that fixed the problem. Ive been running about 380cc in all my pros which brings up maybe another topic all together, how much oil? Ahhh the eternal - how much oil to put in my Gas Gas question. Firstly ignore the book - especially on a 2004 Raga Rep. 550ml is way too much and can lead to crank case leaks which are horribly hard to stop. GG UK deny the problem but I have heard and experienced (took me 5 attempts to stop mine leaking) of at least 3 or 4 2004 Raga Reps leaking oil from the crank casing even though there is no pressure in the system. The figure given by most people 'in the know' is 450ml When draining, ensure the bike and oil is HOT (ideally as soon as you turn off after a trial), that way when you drain it it will be very thin and will all drain easily. If the oil is not hot then it will be thicker and you could easily get an additional 50-60ml that does not drain. So if you then put 450ml in you will have too much again. What I always did was - put in 400ml, lean bike over a few times to let the oil spread, check the oil level in the window - should be about half way up, ride the bike for 5 or so minutes then check the window again and if necessary put in upto an additional 50ml. You should then have no problems - hopefully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hensley Posted May 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2007 Ive been using 390cc after draining a warm engine by laying it over on each side. I still havent done anything to fix the bike. Last night i decided i would ride it till it started creeping or my knee thats been acting up went out after about 40 minutes it started creeping. I put it in 3rd gear put my foot on the break and slipped the clutch 5 to 10 seconds it stopped creeping i rode another 10 minutes or so without it creeping then my knee got worse and i quit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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