Trials Growth

[alan bechard]

Was thinking about the growth of trials a bit, and was thinking about the arguments about why trials does not grow, and the comparison between MX and Trials, and the recent explosion of the X type or freestyle type riding.

Commonly it is said that Trials does not have the thrill of MX with the close finishes and the race to the wire which makes it more of a spectator friendly sport. We do not have that, and will not really.

But what if instead of looking at MX, we look at Hare Scrambles or Enduro.

At least in my area, they are immensley popular and well attended.

They do not have the "finish" nor are they very spectator friendly, matter of fact, they are really more difficult to watch and less exciting normally than the average trials to spectate, at least in my opinion.

Why are they so huge??? What are they doing differently than we are in Trials?

[city trials]

Alan,

I believe it is the speed factor, you know who was fastest, and the fact in Hare Scrambles you can make a mistake here and there and still win.

But, I still believe this sport has promise to entertain, the world indoor championships prove that.

I am really liking this Moto1 that Carly is involved with, adding a trials element to Supermoto.

Carly, if you read this thread, can you show us a design of this course?

[toofasttim]

Al, I think it's because anybody who can ride a motorcycle can get round a hare scrambles circuit. They may not be the fastest but they will make at least a lap. Trials is a very different story even a rider very competent in other disiplines can struggle to get through an easy novice section. Bearing in mind that most (all?) of us participate for egostistical purposes very few people are prepared to look like absolute plonkers/squids/toads/spoads (insert your terminology of choice) for the apprenticeship period.

I bumped into an old enduro riding friend the other day who hasn't ridden for about 5 yrs and suggested he give trials a bash, to which he replied "but thats really difficult". He succumbed and is coming out to my dads memorial trial on Sunday, as is Bigfoot.

[brian r]

Tim, you had something to do with the "lads" coming to TTC, didn't you?

Great guys and great riders too. Thanks for your part in getting them over here.

TTC won't be the same without them.

[sting32]

"What are we doing wrong????" It isn't us, trials is about the neatest "motorsport" in the world!

Heck, over half of it I would say, is the availability of bikes. Add to that the fact that Trials really is Niche sport, with sport specific single purpose bikes... without seats I might add. but the availability of bikes, especially for kids is still a big problem.

IMHO another thing that might help, maybe all trials bikes should come like the "long-ride" kit that Scorpa's had, but that way as the default.

Sad truth is, that almost everyone that I have ever had "give trials a try" has loved it, especially if they are under 15, and over 28. Half of it too is that you look at the old 75 Yamaha TY, and I know it would easily get you a win in Novice classes. But the new guy takes that yamaha, and will continually think he's being beat by a "newer bike," it is a syndrome that is hard to treat without $$ or a real appreaciation of skills involved.

PS I get a LOT of rasberrys about my "Girls Bike" from my brother, and guys like my "Next Trials convert" that Iam working on, he thinks he a motocrosser & roadracer... he's getting near to the end of the exclusion group I mentioned, so I'll have him on trials bike, by this next year... I think.

[mattr]

I think it is the lack of bike availability in your local bike shop and places to ride for practice. In SE Michigan, people can go down to a shop and put up a dirt bike (Honda, Yamaha, KTM, etc.). There's a few tracks nearby for the MX folks and the Enduro guys can ride at Maumee State Forest or a few private areas. There is nothing suitable for Trials other than competitions. I rode at Maumee Forest before and many people were interested in my trials bike. Unfortunately, the land there is flat and only a few logs are around to play on. Not your ideal trials heaven. I think if better practice areas were available and people got to see others ride, then people may start crossing-over to our sport. Also without shop support, the average joe biker who doesn't work on their own bikes can be discouraged from buying a trials bike. Everything is mail-order and you are the mechanic.

Matt

[toofasttim]

Tim, you had something to do with the "lads" coming to TTC, didn't you?

Great guys and great riders too. Thanks for your part in getting them over here.

TTC won't be the same without them.

Thanks for the Thanks Brian. I was just aware of TTC thru' that great ambassador for Tennesee Mr MacNair (when's he going to get onto this buletin board?). John Le Riche asked whether I knew anybody in the States and I just put two and two together.

Now all I have to do is get the little buggers down here to give us some lessons

Regarding availibility of bikes, IMO that's not a factor. If there was sufficient demand the factories would satisfy it. During the boom times of the late 70's if a trials bike was on the floor in a shop somebody (a non trials rider) would buy it sharpish. But the bike would never appear at a trial.

Edited October 7, 2004 by TooFastTim

[charliechitlins]

But what if instead of looking at MX, we look at Hare Scrambles or Enduro.

What if we think about golf?!?!?

Some folks say trials isn't exciting enough to watch!

Jeeze.....

[city trials]

While we are at it, how about all those Poker Shows on Sports TV, fishing shows on TV, hunting shows on TV, car shows on TV, bowling shows on TV, lumber jack shows on TV, Dog Shows on TV, the bikini contests on TV?

O.K I confess, I watch the Bikini Contests.

Edited October 9, 2004 by City Trials

[bikespace]

It's a hard sport to get in to despite the relative cheapness as a motorsport.

Any time people see trials (in UK anyway) they see Dougie Lampkin and co. taking their machines up cliffs, balancing 20 feet up on cotton reels etc.

Your average bloke who tucks his trousers in to his socks before he gets on his mountain bike doesn't think "I could do that". He probably thinks it's a circus act that he couldn't get in to in a month of Sundays.

I'm not knocking Dougie and co. because nobody would have heard of it at all if it weren't for them.

The way people get in to trials in my opinion is through someone they know, or they used to do trials, or someone in their family did trials.

These demo's at country fairs etc are usually closer to the circus act too, because that's what people want to watch, and don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they should be any different.

But.....I wonder if it would introduce more people to trials if at these country fairs/shows there were a couple of bikes to try on real easy sections, with a local dealer to let them know what sort of prices the bikes are, new or second hand (ACU sponsored maybe????).

Someone to let them know how little they actually have to do and how little the sport can cost from week to week.

Maybe it's pie in the sky, maybe it wouldn't work, maybe the logistics of providing boots/helmets/insurance would make it unrealistic.

Not everybody has got the money, but there are a lot of people out there these days with more money available than there was in the past. I think if more people knew what this sport did by giving kids not just something to do on a weekend to keep them off the streets, but give them a full time hobby, there would be a lot more riders out there.

Some trials seem to be organised in a much less professional way than they used to be as well. Some of them seem more like a bit of a Sunday afternoon ride out than a sport, especially when everyone can have an award because there's a class for every star sign, but that's another argument.

I think people generally like to be part of something that's professionally organised, but turn up for a two bob setup and they can take it or leave it.

[rineholio]

Misc thoughts on trials growth:

I think one of the reasons trials doesn't get bigger is that to truly improve, be involved, and ultimately enjoy the sport, you need to compete, and many aren't into that. If you didn't compete, what would riding a trials bike be like? Almost anyone can ride a standard dirtbike (even a Z50) across average terrain and have fun. For trials, you really need experienced riders to create courses and a path on which to advance your skills, so to speak. Trials is about the riding, more than anything else, IMHO. A new adult rider can ride a CRF 450 down a dirt road at 70 mph, and be thrilled, but they would suffer on the Novice course on any new trials bike. I believe something like this has been intoned already, and as they say, trials is a "thinking man's" sport.

I also feel it's a lot of work to put on the average trials event. For my club, typical setup involves going out the weekend before and setting up the route, and marking out the sections. Then we go out the next weekend, and tidy everything up. It's a very small core of the total club that actually does the work, which I think is typical of most club events of any kind. For the average member living in the San Diego, CA area, that's about eight hours of driving, two complete weekends in the desert (wonderful for me) and handling other responsibilities such as work, spouses, kids, or whatever (Keeping up with work alone is hard for me!). When you factor in the amount of effort it takes to keep a group of people connected and interested who live hours apart, it's amazing the average person can even become involved in a trials club, and still have time for other things.

On top of that, I've noticed that when you put on an event that gets a large turnout, you start having lines at sections and the event goes on forever. You start reaching the point where the riding time doesn't match the effort, and you don't have enough willing club members with sufficient skill, or sometimes access to enough land to lay out more sections so you can split divisions or something to keep lines down. When it gets like this, it takes away from family and socializing time, which is important, even though I still argue that trials is about the riding! It's hard to increase size of your club and the riders' over-all skill levels in the right proportions so that they can put on a bigger competition that doesn't suck.

Blab blab blab-I think marketing and cost plays a part. Businesses market whatever they think will make them the most money. Compared to dirtbikes, I would think streetbikes outsell them by huge amounts. Less and less offroad riding areas are part of the reason, as is the cost of a new dirtbike. The new Montesa 4stk will probably be $7300 American or so. I know guys who are holding off, keeping there old scoots, and waiting to see what all the brands will cost when they are released in 05. They're only considering the cost of one bike. Just think if you had two kids who wanted to ride. By the time you get the crew outfitted, you're looking at 20k just for bikes and gear, even buying the kids cheaper bikes. Yeah, you can go used, but this is just an example.

All these things impede growth of the sport.

At any rate, my wife is demanding my attention. I think she wants me to lift or "be tall" for her, and besides I need to stop boring people. I hope someone will sort this out for the better. I was also going to write on the topic of "When a sport gets too big it attracts money and gets ruined," but thought better of it. Cheers!

[charliechitlins]

Misc thoughts on trials growth:

I think one of the reasons trials doesn't get bigger is that to truly improve, be involved, and ultimately enjoy the sport, you need to compete, and many aren't into that.

I have to disagree with this.

My relationship with trials borders on obsession (the same with my regular riding buddy), and I virtually never compete.

I have a blast working on a particular obstacle or a little section and competing with myself.

I'm sure that most trials riders have a good time practicing and competing with friends, but I think that one can do either one without the other.

I've heard this view expressed before, so it's not something exclusive to Rineholio, so I wonder if it's just that idea that puts people off the sport.

I think he's on to something regarding the social aspect of the sport.

Trials definitely has to be the most social of motorsports, and it is unique in that beginners and experts can play together in the same area.

[jtt]

Not too beat up on Rineholio (as I agree with most everything else you said), but I like Charlie do 95% of my riding outside of competitions. I love the fact that I can play for an hour or 2 very near my home, or even in my backyard or driveway. "Freeriding" (I hate that term, but it fits) on trials bikes is a blast with some good buddies. Follow the leader routines and pushing each other to try stuff that you normally would simply pass by in a competition is a whole lot of fun. The social aspect is also a huge draw.

[hensley]

I strongly agree with the last two post. In sw missouri we have no club but have at last count at least 30 riders getting together at riding area chadwich national forrest usually 7-8 on any decent weekend nothing organized other than maybe a friday night pnone call or 2. In the fall a two day will be at one of the three clubs within 250 miles of us. and usualy 2 or 3 will go. Exception may be at oklahoma promises to be a really good event about 15 riders say there going. I spend most of my time riding on my farm and a couple of neighbors farms kinda a family gathering with a few buddies coming over. I am by no means saying anything wrong with riding events. I might go to several if they were closer and on saterdays. However if they are no events in your area or loading up and being there at a set date each month just doesnt work there is still a lot of fun to be had. Dont know much about golf but seems like 3 or 4 guys get together and play and hardly ever play in tounaments and what seems to me as a boring sport has became quite popular.

[the artist formerly known as ish]

I just posted this to our local club site, it's my opinion on trials growth in our club, I also think it applies to events world wide, even in the world trials HQ Yorkshire england, it doesn't take a smart man to see which clubs have the formula right.

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Looking at the results of the Jordan creek trial with focus on the novice and intermediate classes.

1 Richard Chapman 10/5 7/4 3/7 20/16

2 Josh Huffman 4/8 8/7 9/6 21/21

3 Daniel Blanc 11/5 9/6 4/8 24/19

4 Bill Hasenjaeger 12/5 5/7 8/5 25/17

5 JD Morris 13/4 24/2 13/5 50/11

6 Hans Kaplik 20/3 26/0 21/2 67/5

7 Nathan McDonald 29/2 21/2 18/5 68/9

8 Jeff Zertanna 27/1 25/2 31/1 83/4

9 Jake McDonald 38/0 20/2 34/2 68/9

Dnf Michael Matovich 20/1

Dnf Michael Morris

Intermediate Lp 1 Lp 2 Lp 3 Total

1 Mike Strauser 6/6 3/8 1/9 10/23

2 Tony Andrews 4/7 5/7 2/8 11/22

3 Larry Klein 0/10 9/6 3/7 12/23

4 Mark Snyder 4/6 2/8 6/6 12/20

5 Abe Wirth 8/7 1/9 6/8 15/24

6 Hank Wirth 7/5 8/6 1/9 16/20

7 Justin Tollefson 9/6 4/6 10/4 23/16

8 Glenn Goodman-Hawk 10/6 8/5 8/8 26/19

9 Mike Wirth 18/4 3/7 6/5 27/16

10 Didier Blanc 19/3 8/4 5/6 32/13

11 Keith Ditmars 13/5 9/5 11/5 33/15

12 Nick Badger

I have gone through all the results for the season on those two classes. The dabber and Walt and Gene's trial got the section difficulty for morning riders spot on! this weekends trial also had the correct formula for giving challenge while providing enough cleans for entry level riders to give them both confidence and enjoyment to come back and try again.

This has nothing to do with event format or if the event is observed or group check, I think by using nothing more than the past years results we have documented evidence on how the section severity could be best used to make the club grow.

Champ class, Max Nelson got hung up a bit trying to get a win in the Expert class, well into the season he finally won one and since has gone from strength to strength, to keep this improvement moving in the right direction his next move needs to be to the champ class.

This is good for all the afternoon classes, the jump from Intermediate to Advance needed to be eased, it now can be! there are still a bunch of us who are steady riders in the expert class but don't need to be doing the silly steps and back wheel hops across gaps to get our weekend jollies, good upcoming young riders like Max have now a place to go with the champ class and a excellent school masters in Dennis and the ever youthfull seasonal rider Stan the van man to keep them improving, again the sections can be tough in that class with plenty of challenge but still do not need the worldround steps and dangerous stuff.

I do have a bit of experience in section marking and what is needed to make the events enjoyable while still giving a challenge, probably the best attended event this year would be the Dabber, this also shows people remember events and how the section severity and enjoyability were last time they rode that event, they show this by attendance the following year,we the club need to use this information to increase that attendance.

It is not our responsibility to make national or world champions, but we do need to do what is best for our club members at the club events.

The more young riders we can get hooked on the sport the better the chance of having club rider's competitive in the national championship class, in in the past when the club attendance was up we did have.

John Isherwood