ianashdown Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 Hi, I have just acquired a 125cc Puch Dalesman Trials bike in need of more than a little TLC. It's been years since I was involved with trials and I've lost touch with where to get parts etc. Obviously an old bike like this presents even more of a challenge, but if anyone has any information, pictures, manuals etc that I could purchase, copy, borrow I would be really grateful. Also if there are business that specialize in this bike or similar I'd be happy to hear about them. Thanks! Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinnied Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 http://www.cybermotorcycle.com/euro/brands/puch.htm try this Vinnie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ducman Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 Ian, well for engine parts you have to look in Austria(ebay or jumble's).Even here on the continent the Puch engine is a rare bird and parts are very hard to find.The bset thing is when you get in contact with Hartwig Kamarad,the director of the first trialsmusem in Ohlsdorf/Austria.I'am shure he can help you.I think he knows a few people who worked for the Puch company in the racing and development department. Chrs:Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee harris Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 Ian,well for engine parts you have to look in Austria(ebay or jumble's).Even here on the continent the Puch engine is a rare bird and parts are very hard to find.The bset thing is when you get in contact with Hartwig Kamarad,the director of the first trialsmusem in Ohlsdorf/Austria.I'am shure he can help you.I think he knows a few people who worked for the Puch company in the racing and development department. Chrs:Mike hes real german....... hi micha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totalshell Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 you could do worse than look through don morleys 'classic british two stroke trials bikes' four pages are devoted to the bikes. many of those involved are still active and i'm sure would be more than willing to give detail if asked ( nicely) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big john Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 First motorcycle I ever had was a Dalesman Puch. It was used by Ernie Page in the 1969 ISDT. I've seen parts on e-bay before now. Jim Lee (Mick Grant's sponsor) built the frames originally. Would like to see a photo to see what model it is you have Ianashdown. Big John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianashdown Posted February 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 Hi, I've posted some photos of my Puch Dalesman, as recieved, on Flickr. You can view them here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/64592529@N00/ I hope! I'd appreciate any comments as to what appears to be correct original and what is not. Does anyone know what the correct original frame color should be? There appears to be a light grey color under the black, but I don't know if that's primer or original color. As you'll see one of the major missing parts is the tank. I've been told that this same tank was used on other bikes - anyone know which other bikes? Also if any one know where to look for the Frame and Engine numbers I'd be grateful. Right now it's been hand painted and I can see one anywhere - mind you a quick blast with the pressure washer may help! I had one of these bikes in 1972 when I was 15 back in England (now live in Southern California), and my memory of the details is just not working for me! I hope the photos are interesting, I'll add some more when it's been cleaned up a bit! Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparks2 Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 (edited) Hi (In my opinion) You have one of the later 'six speeders'. I bought one new in 1970. Several mods have been carried out on the bike over the years. Frame colour on mine was black, though I have now no recollection of frame and engine numbers. You should note that Dalesman were only a very small producer (and probably strapped for cash) so the exact specification and equipment fitted could vary from bike to bike as they left the producer. I do not recognise the yokes. mine had MP S600 forks, your fork legs are correct for this fork. No prop stand was fitted, yours looks like a home made addition. Your exhaust is again home brewed (certainly the silencer is). The footrests are an after market type marketed by the accessory firm 'Wassell' in the 1970's and 1980's. Your carb is a Bing and may well be correct for this engine. Mine was fitted with a cheapskate Amal Mk1 (rubbish). Your front hub is probably an alloy conical replacement, could be REH, Rickman or BSA/Triumph, mine was a tiny Puch from a moped, these were very poor and used to break up in any case. The tank on mine was again from the Wassell people in alloy (a good tank). Interestingly these tanks were still available up to 7 or 8years ago from Millers or Surrey Cycles, marketed as a Tiger Cub tank or a general purpose trials tank (I am looking for one now for a Miller Bultaco I am building - if anyone has got one surplus to requirements). The fork sliders should be polished alloy (not black). The rear hub (a Puch item) looks correct and in good condition. Anyway, Good Luck with the Dalesman, any survivors deserve preservation. I will help in any way if I can. Kind Regards Sparks2 Edited February 23, 2009 by sparks2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big john Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 The fork yolks are exactly as the ones I had on my Dalesman which was a 1969 machine. Frame colour was a mid-green and the front hub is an R.E.H (Robin E Humphries) Yolks could be REH or MP, I can't remember who made them, but I can honestly say they are as fitted to my bike. Rear Hub is Puch M125 and is also correct as is the swinging arm, but someone has fitted snail cam adjusters whereas originally they were bolt adjusters similar to the Puch road bike. Tanks were made by Wassell as they used the same tank on their bikes with Sachs motors. I always thought the 125cc Puch motor was a five speed gearbox and the 169cc (175cc) motor had the six speed as used in the Greeves Pathfinder? Big John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparks2 Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 (edited) Hi (again) Thanks for the input BJ. Sorry to contradict you but all the Puch road bike (M125) based Dalesmans were 4 speed. Some of the later ones had the Puch ISDT type engines and were six speed (still all 125cc). Although 4 and 6 speed versions were available at the same time, the six speeder cost a bit more. Greeves used a version of the Puch six speed ISDT type engine in the Pathfinder (in 175 form). BJ is correct about the rear wheel adjusters and rear hub. Your yokes are certainly not MP, if we assume BJ to be correct about them, then they are almost certainly REH and could well have been supplied with the bike. So the same could go for the front hub. How does a little old Dalesman produced in Otley find it's way to California? Ian, If I were you, I would not bother unduly about originality but just concentrate on building a practical little trials bike. Just hope that the engine, gearbox and electronic ignition are serviceable as replacements would be problematical. Though the engine looks externally good and does not look hacked about. And the engine had a reputation as unburstable and reliable (hence the ISDT tag). Everything else should be repairable, replaceable or be able to be reproduced. As we have seen and as I have tried to say earlier, the built spec and equipment could well have varied, bike to bike, as the bikes were being built, using up what was to hand. The Dalesman owned by BJ would have been a special build for the ISDT works effort, and as such, would have been built to a higher standard than the one day bikes built for the punters. Kind Regards Sparks2 Edited February 23, 2009 by sparks2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianashdown Posted February 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 Hi, I've counted the gears up and down and it seems the mine is a four speed. That a little dissapointing, but not really a big deal. I think most of the rest is probably original, well not the exhaust, and I'll keep most of it. The foot pegs may not be, but they seem OK. The rear wheel adjusters might get changed, but I'm not sure at this point. I'll have to figure out which front mudguard mounting I should use, or maybe which one I can find! I did find a Tank at Sammy Millers and it is on its way. I think I need to replace the hand controls, handlebars and seat (obvious), and the rims need to be re-chromed, unless I can find some period Alloy Rims. Otherwise it's fairly straightforward - I think. The front hub may be original, but so far I've found now way to drive a spedometer although there is a cable tyraped under the tank! I'm not bothered about a spedo, but I think it may be required if I plan to enter any events. All in all a nice little project. I thought the engine was siezed, but it's not - it's just the kickstart thats jammed. Good news! I'll try to decide the frame color etc. So far I've heard Green, Blue, Silver or Black as being the original color. I think mine was green back in 73 so I'm leaning that way. I think the suggestion to not worry too much about originality is right on. I just wanted to figure out where I was starting from, and then re-build it in the correct period without being crazy about the details. I'm really not sure how this bike found its way out to California. It has a Sammy Miller Plate on the front so I think it was probably in England for some of its life. I found it locally and they have no history at all. If I could find a frame number I might be able to start tracking it down from the other end! I did locate the engine number; its 3603566. I don't know what that tells us, but at least I have a number. I'll post some more photos on Flickr now it's been pressure washed. Thanks for all the help and guidance, Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big john Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 Sorry Guys, 1970 was a long time ago and I got my first Bultaco in 1974 so I had actually forgotten that the Dalesman was a 4 speeder! (SHAME ON ME!). The bike I had was one of three prepared by Dalesman for the 1969 ISDT at Garmisch Partenkirchen (Bavaria). For information: my bike (PSG 565H) was ridden by Ernie Page; my mate John Hodge's bike (PSH 564H) was ridden by Ian Miller and the third (never knew the reg number) was ridden by Scott Ellis. They had 20 inch front wheels, 18 inch rear fitted with Dunlop Sports MX tyres. Bing carb. A centre stand was fitted along with Wico Pacy lights front and rear. They had the MX still air boxes made in Glass-fibre. Seat was a short similar to the BSA Victor style. Front forks and hubs REH; Puch QD rear hub (sprocket carrier remained 'in situ' when rear wheel was removed). Big John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparks2 Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 (edited) Hi I'm suprised that it is only 4 speed as it has the 6 speed flywheel cover and (I think) the six speed larger finned barrel. Ian, keep the rear wheel snail cams they are superior to the original bolt type. If I were you, I would just use modern day alloy rims as re-chroming rims is not really successful. I think the tank you have ordered from Millers will be the modern day Tiger Cub/universal alloy tank, slightly different from the Wassell tank but never the less perfectly acceptable. BJ - it would make sense that yours (built in 1969) was a four speeder as the first 6 speeders were not built until the latter half of 1970. Kind Regards Sparks2 Edited February 23, 2009 by sparks2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianashdown Posted February 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Hi, It may be that I went thru a couple of gears! I hope it's a six-speed - my original one was. I agree with you about the cam adjusters, they look OK. I'd like to find a period style Alloy rim if I'm going to go that route. Morad still make the Valanced 'Akront' style rims and that might look quite good. I have had rims refinished in the past if they were original, but it's not inexpensive - especially here in California! I think you're right on the tank, but we'll see what it looks like. I think it'll be just fine! Do you know how I can tell when mine was made. I can't find a frame number, but I don't know where to look - any ideas where I should be concentrating my search? If I have a number, is there a register of bike made or whatever. Does the engine number tell us anything? I really appreciate all the help, this is going to be fun! Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westyfield Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Hi Ian, I have original pages of "Motorcycle News" from 1969 with full page tests and reviews of the Dalesman. The first from July '69 reporting that the first batch of 50 had been sold and a second batch was being built. The other is from October 69 exclaiming the virtues of a new frame for the 1970 model. If you pm me with your address I could loan them for copying if interested. I was considering a new bike in 1969 and eventually settled on a Sprite with the 125 Sachs engine... just like the one waiting for completion behind two Saracen 125's in the far corner of the garage! Just how competitive they will be in the modern classic world I'm not sure. Not quite a twin-shock in the Fantic/TY mold but neither classic pre-65/70 two-stoke.. Incidentally, I have most MCN's from late 50's 'til late 70's boxed up in the garage! I try to sort them out occasionally but soon get enthralled at reading them and often amazed at how regular winners back then are still around doing the same today... Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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